- This topic has 45 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 10 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Racing Post: “Trainers and racing fans should prepare themselves for the prospect of good ground at Newbury’s two-day….”
Yes, you read that right, not Firm ground, Good ground.
Good is the new Bad.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Very good post LD.
“If you have a horse that can’t handle good racing ground…you should campaign it in Ireland or France.”
Another point to put to Henderson. If soft ground is so vital to his delicate horses, why does he seldom have runners in Ireland? As far as I am aware, he has never had a runner at the Dublin Racing Festival.
Instead we get complaining about the ground; or how he cannot find suitable races (strange how Nicholls and Skelton seem to find them); or if he can find a race it is too close to The Only Meeting That Matters and he would rather have a racecourse gallop instead.
Two issues arising from “Luck On Sunday” today. Megan Nicholls said the horses her father ran at Ascot yesterday are all absolutely fine. And Dave Yates made the important point that if Henderson, King et al withdraw horses because of the ground, they should say it is because it is unsuitable for their horses, not say it is unsafe. They have to realise such talk sends out a very bad message. It also opens them to questions about why they are prepared to run the same horses on good ground in March.
Lydia Hislop tweets “There has been much irresponsible language thrown about on Planet Horseracing this weekend, including allegations (& postulations) of injury-causing ground and the conflating of welfare with campaign preference. Those of us who earn our living via this sport owe it greater care.”
Thanks CAS – I would imagine he doesn’t go to Ireland too often prior to Cheltenham because it would probably mean running into his main rivals, which he endeavours to dodge at all costs until Cheltenham. Although I do recall Bobs Worth won the Lexus but that was before the DRF as we know it came into being.
Granted the unseasonably low level water table at these courses is probably the main issue as the amount of rain (40mm) Ascot had earlier in the week would in most cases have caused the course to go to at the least soft or maybe even heading towards the heavy side but even allowing for the course really over absorbing the rain, the race times tell their own story over the two days and point towards the going description actually being not too far off as advertised.
Racing Post’s time analysis for Friday on good to soft (good in places)
https://www.racingpost.com/results/2/ascot/2022-11-18/winning-timesRacing Post’s time analysis for Saturday on good (good to soft in place)
https://www.racingpost.com/results/2/ascot/2022-11-19/winning-timesTrainers make money through training fees primarily. It is therefore in their financial interest to run horses as few times as they can get away with to maximise longevity. A lot of owners also seem to be increasingly deferential and willing to follow the plan of building up to one or two target races per season (and the largely false hope of a Cheltenham winner) rather than striking while the iron is hot and the horse is fit and sound.
There are obviously other factors at play but I think the insidious creep of overcautious campaigning is driven to a large extent by the above.
Does anyone think if Nicholls trained CH he would have been a non runner ? , also is Henderson not bothered about being champion trainer ?
You know…American jumps racing may have degenerated into glorified point-to-points, the quality may be dross, there may be a bottleneck of maidens and novices with not enough graduating to big fences, our horse and jockey population may be increasingly made up of NH cast-offs, our “Grand National” may be a hurdle race…but I can’t recall ever seeing an American jumps trainer scratch a horse due to the ground. If a horse here required soft ground they’d be out of luck much of the time. We water to make the grass grow and little more. The trainers with Irish horses do a rain dance, Jack Fisher with his former flat horses prays to the sun gods, but the ground is what it is. There’s nothing special about the breeding of horses here that allows them to hold up to it either, in fact many of them were once trained by the horsemen who grouse about running on good ground.
It is also interesting to me that Henderson claims he wouldn’t ever run a horse on Ascot’s good ground when he himself sent Pistol Whipped to the US to run on firm ground in the Iroquois Hurdle this past May.
Lewis Carroll nailed Henderson a long time ago:
‘Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.’
In that tweed suit he was wearing on Saturday, he even looked like a character from the Mad Hatters tea party.
Saw this comment in the Guardian’s “Talking Horses” blog about Saturday at Ascot:
“Unless you have owned a horse,paid for it and then watched it run and return injured or worse you have no understanding obviously of why trainers make these decisions. Quite frankly I could not care a jot about your 10p ew yankee being ruined when my horse is withdrawn through ground concerns.”
I suppose there has always been tension between owners and punters but the sneering, entitled attitude in that post is dreadful.
Maybe that owner ought to reflect on how much money punters put into the game. Or how some punters might decide if that is racing’s attitude, then they will take their custom elsewhere.
Let’s hear owners start squealing when prize money drops. It is not like years ago when all there was for punters to bet on was horses, greyhounds and the football pools.
Thats all very well but the notion of ground concerns is worrying as per the going at Ascot
NR – Bottled it, in fear injury or worse
Blackbeard to conquer the World
“I could not care a jot about your 10p ew yankee”
How about a £1 each-way Yankee?
Or £10 each-way Yankee?
Or £100 each-way Yankee?
Or £1,000 each-way Yankee? (Cost £22,000).
At one point does this cretin – odds-on to be both chinless and a beneficiary of inherited wealth – think punters funding prize money through the Levy are entitled to an opinion?
Or do you have to be minted and/or a problem gambler to get a view?
This, yet again, illustrates why I love racing but loathe (most of) the people in racing.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I know what you mean but I have met some very nice people in the lower ranks on a wet Wednesday at Wolverhampton, met a few villains as well mind you!
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysI saw that post on the Guardian blog, and wrote a pretty robust reply – but didn’t post as I’d have been banned.
But that is the perfect example of entitled self interest – and not seeing the bigger picture.
Even though i am a punter and not an owner or trainer, i don’t have a problem with horses being taken out of races due to unsuitable ground conditions. Trainers don’t make the decision on their own they consult with the owner(s).
Happened in Ireland as well over the last week or two but it’s generally accepted over there and not getting criticism when the Mullins’s and the De Bromhead’s do it.I heard what Burke said on Nick Luck’s podcast. He was articulate and worth listening to, as usual.
However, on the same podcast Jane Mangan made the point made by others (including Dave Yates and Lydia Hislop) that Henderson was completely wrong to cite welfare issues. Mangan accused him of throwing under the bus all the trainers who let their horses run. I think she is right.
Henderson and King – both experienced trainers – should think much more carefully about the language they use.
And the fact remains they will still run their horses on good ground at the Cheltenham festival.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.