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Nice pic, Gord. Your Derby winner shot was a cracker too. I suspect you could be The Photographer King as well as TAPK
This was a far harder shot to pull off than getting mowed down by Frankie.
Nice shot my friend. I knew you had a hidden talent…somewhere :)
What bird is that?
Non-trier Joni.
Hans sacrificed to ensure the strong pace Giovanni needed.
How do they get away with it?Heffernan should be facing a lengthy ban imo.
It’s one thing setting equal fractions which do not weaken the horse’s chance. Quite another to set overly strong fractions and have nothing left in the final quarter mile. There should’ve been a stewards enquirey to look in to whether it was a deliberate act. I can’t believe Seamie has that bad a clock in his brain. What he did decreased Hans Holbein’s chance of winning and if he did it on purpose is against the rules of racing.Yes indeed Mark. Poor old Eddie Ahern got 10 years for a similar ride!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Nice shot my friend. I knew you had a hidden talent…somewhere
What bird is that?
Before..
And after!…Another talent Joe.
Hmmm Queen Anne would be naive I think. Night of Thunder & Toormore are dynamite over a straight-8, and they already beat Arod FTO. Solow also looks interesting (although again, not 100% convinced by him – not beaten anything of worth, barring CdA who obviously didn’t run to form) and Able Friend is coming too. Very big horse, been winning around a bend but given his size you’d think a straight-8 would suit him better. I’ve not looked closely at the race because I think there are just too many imponderables. NoT at 6/1 does make some EW appeal though, but more than likely I’ll leave it alone. Wherever NoT finishes though, Toormore will not be far behind.
Fair enough you don’t like harsh judgements but I like laying, and my approach finds a lot of value in laying short-priced horses in good races. What I have noticed is that my love of the big races often leads me to forcing a back, rather than just sticking to a lay. As somebody said to me a few years ago, a 3/1 winner at Southwell pays the same as a 3/1 winner at Cheltenham, and that’s something I really need to drum into myself. Need to learn that my theory might prove correct in the long-run, but short-term it might not pay, which I’m pretty confident will prove to be the case with Golden Horn. He’s currently best-priced 11/8 for the Eclipse, so hopefully he’ll be odds-on on the day with decent opposition to take him on with.
p.s. I also really like Limato. Ignore his last run on usual awful Haydock ground. And Clever Cookie looked a monster at York.
Yes I agree the Queen Anne will take a lot of winnning so naive thinking. I like Solow – I think he is real class. Just listen to what his trainer says about him – and he knows a thing or two about great horses.
With you on Limato – the ground was all against him the last time. Another one I like at big prices in the Commonwealth is Tendu. Ignore her last run as it was too short and she missed the break. Back over 6f she could be the one to follow the fav home. And yes Clever Cookie will be very tough to beat if he gets his ground.
My horse to follow is of course Ectot. I followed him off the Arc cliff last year but I am convinced he is a very good horse and have already backed him what is DEFINITELY looking a POOR Prince of Wales!!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Is the bird a swift or swallow?
Magnificent pic Gord, I googled “images of swift” and “swallow”. Yours is better than any of them.If I was still carpet fitting could advertise on here too.
Value Is EverythingI could advertise Window Cleaning but it’s a long walk to your house carrying a ladder Ginge.
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Joni: no need to apologise, maybe I over reacted but there are reasons which matter not on a Forum therefor I apologise for my childish retort.
If you guys out there have never met Gord, I suggest do one day as he is a cracker of a bloke; nothing at all like he portrays himself on here! Me, well I’m a simple bloke who enjoys the challenge of trying to outwit the bookies in my own way which comes off now and then
I may look unfit and am deffo overweight but if I tell you I lost the use of my legs for 2 months last year due to past injuries maybe you’ll get close to understanding why! I still run distances at my pace and as Gord the Tieman found out, that pace isn’t too shabby! Final comment apologies for confusion over GDC and Manchester but I was forced to change when this ridiculous format was initiated and I had no choice! Good luck all and no hard feelings JB!Good to hear from you Gary and glad there’s no hard feelings. Sounds like you have been through it a bit. Hope things are better health-wise now. I have no excuse for my size, just too many pies as Gord kindly pointed out the other day!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Re Hans Holbein as a pacemaker, I just wonder if the jockey donald-ducked up on the day. It’s possible they wanted him to get back under the radar as far as the Irish Derby or St Leger is concerned in much the same way it is now clear they wanted to keep Qualified under the radar for the Oaks but my gut reaction, having backed the beast, is that the jockey just had a rush of blood when Elm Park blasted past him out of the gate.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Zarkava wrote:</div>
Hmmm Queen Anne would be naive I think. Night of Thunder & Toormore are dynamite over a straight-8, and they already beat Arod FTO. Solow also looks interesting (although again, not 100% convinced by him – not beaten anything of worth, barring CdA who obviously didn’t run to form) and Able Friend is coming too. Very big horse, been winning around a bend but given his size you’d think a straight-8 would suit him better. I’ve not looked closely at the race because I think there are just too many imponderables. NoT at 6/1 does make some EW appeal though, but more than likely I’ll leave it alone. Wherever NoT finishes though, Toormore will not be far behind.Fair enough you don’t like harsh judgements but I like laying, and my approach finds a lot of value in laying short-priced horses in good races. What I have noticed is that my love of the big races often leads me to forcing a back, rather than just sticking to a lay. As somebody said to me a few years ago, a 3/1 winner at Southwell pays the same as a 3/1 winner at Cheltenham, and that’s something I really need to drum into myself. Need to learn that my theory might prove correct in the long-run, but short-term it might not pay, which I’m pretty confident will prove to be the case with Golden Horn. He’s currently best-priced 11/8 for the Eclipse, so hopefully he’ll be odds-on on the day with decent opposition to take him on with.
p.s. I also really like Limato. Ignore his last run on usual awful Haydock ground. And Clever Cookie looked a monster at York.
Yes I agree the Queen Anne will take a lot of winnning so naive thinking. I like Solow – I think he is real class. Just listen to what his trainer says about him – and he knows a thing or two about great horses.
With you on Limato – the ground was all against him the last time. Another one I like at big prices in the Commonwealth is Tendu. Ignore her last run as it was too short and she missed the break. Back over 6f she could be the one to follow the fav home. And yes Clever Cookie will be very tough to beat if he gets his ground.
My horse to follow is of course Ectot. I followed him off the Arc cliff last year but I am convinced he is a very good horse and have already backed him what is DEFINITELY looking a POOR Prince of Wales!!
I still really like the 3rd from Tendu’s last race, Zeb Un Nisa. She, like Tendu, was very unlucky that day.
Ectot looks like being very good, I agree.
p.s. I think Exosphere will be good. Won a handicap tonight. I really like the 2nd, Subcontinent, and that was miles clear of the 3rd.
Re Hans Holbein as a pacemaker, I just wonder if the jockey donald-ducked up on the day. It’s possible they wanted him to get back under the radar as far as the Irish Derby or St Leger is concerned in much the same way it is now clear they wanted to keep Qualified under the radar for the Oaks but my gut reaction, having backed the beast, is that the jockey just had a rush of blood when Elm Park blasted past him out of the gate.
Very much doubt Coolmore said “…. this English Derby, if we get placed it’ll b-up the Irish Derby odds” Maurice. You could be right in that Seamie might have been told to lead and when Elm Park pulled his way past had a rush of blood. I suppose Seamie might be only “incompetent”, but he is very experienced and should know the game and…
Coolmore knew their best chance in the race was Giovanni and the stronger the pace the better his chance. Equal fractions would be good, but overly strong early fractions would be even better, to the detriment of anything racing up with the pace. They also knew the short priced favourite might not stay if stamina is to the max. Added to that, their other horse Kilimanjaro is one who’s likely to stay 2m – let alone 1m4f – so also needs stamina at its max. Fortunately for everyone else – apart from ruining the fourth best horse (on betting) Elm Park who was unable to dictate and therefore too free – nobody else fell for the trap, not going with the pair.
Value Is EverythingI presume hans holbien and GCanaletto are going to the Irish Derby presumably ridden by ryan Moore and Joseph obrien.should be very interesting to see the tactics the ballydoyle jockeys use. Highland reel could also be there which could complicate matters further.
Very much doubt Coolmore said “…. this English Derby, if we get placed it’ll b-up the Irish Derby odds” Maurice. You could be right in that Seamie might have been told to lead and when Elm Park pulled his way past had a rush of blood. I suppose Seamie might be only “incompetent”, but he is very experienced and should know the game and…
Coolmore knew their best chance in the race was Giovanni and the stronger the pace the better his chance. Equal fractions would be good, but overly strong early fractions would be even better, to the detriment of anything racing up with the pace. They also knew the short priced favourite might not stay if stamina is to the max. Added to that, their other horse Kilimanjaro is one who’s likely to stay 2m – let alone 1m4f – so also needs stamina at its max. Fortunately for everyone else – apart from ruining the fourth best horse (on betting) Elm Park who was unable to dictate and therefore too free – nobody else fell for the trap, not going with the pair.
Spot on
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
The first thing I wrote on FB after the race was ‘Hans Holbein was sacrificed for GC’ but watching the race again a couple of times later on I wasn’t so sure the tactic was deliberate but I certainly wouldn’t rule it out.
They are definitely a gambling operation.
I’ve now had a chance to crunch some numbers from Derby day.
Rating the Derby according to the time, it makes Stravagante in the opening handicap very fast indeed. On form ratings, the picture is a bit cloudier. Are we to believe Storm The Stars improved 4lbs from Goodwood a fortnight before, which in turn was an improvement on his Chester form behind Hans Hobein? Are we to believe Golden Horn and Jack Hobbs improved 7lbs and 6lbs respectively from the Dante? I’m keeping an open mind about it, with Golden Horn on 126 but am prepared to drop it a bit if Storm The Stars doesn’t frank it. Workforce was around 128 on collateral lines but much higher on time but I suspect his was the only genuinely fast race on the day and it should be noted he was well beaten next time out in the King George. That he came out and won the Arc suggests the Derby took a lot out of him at the time and who’s to say Golden Horn won’t experience the bounce too?
Everything points to Golden Horn being a very good (but no better than that) Derby winner, Jack Hobbs an average placed Derby runner and everything else sub-standard.
To put it into some kind of historical context, it would put Workforce a length and a half further in front – in which case people might argue that Golden Horn didn’t truly stay (!) – with the really good Derby horses even further ahead.
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