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Those who need to see horses fall to enjoy their racing won’t like it Eddie. I prefer it, as long as they water enough to slow them down.
There you go again, off on a tangent saying people who want to see a jumping test enjoy watching horses fall. Where is your evidence for that?
Here is John Francome’s view on the National, I agree with most of it and some excellent comments below the article as well apart from Dave from Stockport
Those who need to see horses fall to enjoy their racing won’t like it Eddie. I prefer it, as long as they water enough to slow them down.
There you go again, off on a tangent saying people who want to see a jumping test enjoy watching horses fall. Where is your evidence for that?
Here is John Francome’s view on the National, I agree with most of it and some excellent comments below the article as well apart from Dave from Stockport
That’s exactly what every jockey says about the National Eddie. I went to a Grand National Preview last night, with Graham Thorner, Brendan Powell and Ben De Haan on the panel. They all had the same thoughts. So Francome believes the race is not what it was. Funnily enough when he was riding in the eighties, I remember the old jocks of 30 years before saying exactly the same thing about the eighties fences. "When oIee were a laad"You only pick one sentence of my posts and don’t reply to the rest Eddie. Ignoring my other points more difficult to give a one liner response.
Value Is EverythingThat’s exactly what every jockey says about the National Eddie. I went to a Grand National Preview last night, with Graham Thorner, Brendan Powell and Ben De Haan on the panel. They all had the same thoughts. So Francome believes the race is not what it was. Funnily enough when he was riding in the eighties, I remember the old jocks of 30 years before saying exactly the same thing about the eighties fences. "When oIee were a laad"
You only pick one sentence of my posts and don’t reply to the rest Eddie. Ignoring my other points more difficult to give a one liner response.
What points? It consists mainly of you saying you preferred one National to another because you won a few quid or Red Rum won apart from 89 when 2 horses were killed.
None killed was there then when Red Rum or West Tip won?
You’ve made that up about jockeys from the 50’s, I don’t recall many if any being interviewed when Francome was riding. The fences changed significantly in 1989 anyway.
There just happens to be a lot more in depth analysis these days but I don’t find anything wrong with the riding at all.
I’ve gone off the race not because of the riding but because of all the alterations to the race particularly the fences. It should be thesupreme jumping test
, it is no longer.
Interesting that
not one
person has voted that they enjoy the race more now.
Comparing enjoyment now to when first discovering racing, I dare say very few (
if any
) of us would enjoy any race as much as we did then, let alone the National.
I don’t enjoy the Grand National as much as when Red Rum was at the height of his potency and racing first caught my eye. Then it became an obsession through the early and middle eighties. But had a reality check in 1989. Seeandem and Brown Trix’s deaths at Becher’s, with latter being pulled out of the brook – was a reality check. Despite my West Tip (2nd) each way bet; I
did not
enjoy the race and vowed that day not to bet in the race again unless it
changed
. It did, but since then I’ve always known the risks involved;
so generally don’t "enjoy" the race as much as when a naive youth.
Did I enjoy last year’s race more than Red Rum winning? No
Did I enjoy last year’s race more than West Tip winning? No
Did I enjoy last year’s race more than 1989? You bet I did!Mind you, it helped winning four figures for the second successive year.
Two outsiders winning the last two runnings. Most TRFers did not back either of them. When people look back they tend to think of the happy days, the winning days.
Would your Past glories always win against your losing days?
To win or be placed is still the
"supreme jumping test"
it always was; Why is it necessary to see a lot of horses fall, when they can just hit the fence, lose energy and either pull up or finish tailed off instead of falling?
Last year I spent time going through the whole field beforehand, looking for the best jumpers. The two best jumpers finished 2nd and 3rd. And Timeform described the winner as "jumped well in the main". If jumping
no longer counts
, why did the
good jumpers
do so well Eddie?
Care to answer the points raised above Eddie? I’ve turned them in to questions for you.
Value Is EverythingNone killed was there then when Red Rum or West Tip won?
You’ve made that up about jockeys from the 50’s, I don’t recall many if any being interviewed when Francome was riding. The fences changed significantly in 1989 anyway.
Before 1989 I was young and naive about racing Eddie, at the time did not realise that horses were killed in Red Rum’s year or most years. It did not matter if I won money on Red Rum, in those days it was just a few pence. Still gives me goose bumps when watching the great horse though.
Not made it up at all Eddie. Fences were different in the eighties to what they were in fifties, easier to jump. One thing I do remember is they were complaining about the fences being too inviting. "When I were a lad the fences were vertical and like a brick wall" or words to that effect. I was too young for the names to mean anything, but a lot of fifties jockeys speaking in the eighties said the race was not what it once was. Just as eighties jockeys speak out now. It’s always been the way.
Value Is EverythingNo reason to discount horses just because they are good jumpers and the fences softer, they had the form in the book, hence they were two of the favs at 10 and 12/1.
If the race had been run over the fences as they were the previous year they would probably have been 1st and 2nd.
Don’t recall all these old jocks from the 50’s being interviewed in the 80’s, surprised you do with you do with you being young and naive prior to 89.
If what you say about Francome is true why didn’t he say it prior to last year?
Francome, Thorner, Powell & Co have said because it is true.
Incidentally did you compliment Brendan on the best ever ride in the National and over the proper fences too on Rhyme’n’Reason? I did back it though
i watch a lot of horse racing all year so it is just another race for me as a punter there are easier races to pick the winner in
The more I think about it the more I realise that I enjoy the build up to the race more than ever but I don’t actually enjoy the race, as I’m a nervous wreck. Was bad enough when I just worried about the horses but now, with all the jockeys being young enough to be my sons
I worry about the jockeys as well.
The more I think about it the more I realise that I enjoy the build up to the race more than ever but I don’t actually enjoy the race, as I’m a nervous wreck. Was bad enough when I just worried about the horses but now, with all the jockeys being young enough to be my sons
I worry about the jockeys as well.
That’s interesting, moehat.
I’ve always believed that jockeys enter a race knowing the risk involved; horses don’t. My sympathies have always been with the horse, in those simplistic terms.
I think it’s down to meeting so many of them at our racing club and then following their careers [eg Brendan powell with his dad a few years back]. First time I got really upset was when Isabel Thompsett was injured; hadn’t met her but followed her since seeing her riding at Bangor. I take your point about the choice aspect, though and the fact that they love what they do so much.
Having been to Aintree on Thursday my worry is that the meeting is getting too popular with just too many people most of which know nothing about racing and only there to booze. Am I being a miserable sod in just wanting to watch the horses??
Having been to Aintree on Thursday my worry is that the meeting is getting too popular with just too many people most of which know nothing about racing and only there to booze. Am I being a miserable sod in just wanting to watch the horses??
Simon Holt mentioned this in the last C4 race, stating when the horses set off, the decibels seemed to be increasing and wondered why that was
Looks like not only you turning into a miserable old sod Have to say that despite the fact that any financial interest was over by halfway, this year’s race was the most I’ve enjoyed a National, probably since Amberleigh House (2004).
Still thrills and spills but the changing of the inner cores seems to have ridden the race of those horrific "rotational" falls of the last few years.
Just a personal observation but most of the falls (Fago in the Topham excepted – that looked nasty) seemed more a case of not getting the landing gear out and crumpling. Also noticed more UR’s from jumping errors then previous recent years.
Thought the Valentine’s run of fences looked big this year and the spruce didn’t seem to dislodge as much as last year, although Bechers has definitely had it’s metaphorical balls cut off!
Think there will be more pressure on a field size reduction as there always seems to be congestion around the Canal Turn now (3 casulties in each of the last two years with the new cores). I’m in the leave as is camp (for now).
On a final note Mail on Sunday’s report couldn’t resist a quote from the "League Against Cruel Sports". Couldn’t let it lie, could they?
Scottish National next Saturday folks…..
There must be a lot of disappointed people out there with there being no fatalities, but I’m sure they’ve stored up the headlines they wanted to use for use in the future.
A very poorly informed article in the Guardian from some one to do with Peta. Lots of the comments were very Guardian readerish too.
None killed was there then when Red Rum or West Tip won?
Eddie in 1973 when Rummy was winning his first from the Gallant loser Crisp, Grey Sombrero fell at the chair incurring a shoulder fracture upon falling and had to be euthanised.
Not made it up at all Eddie. Fences were different in the eighties to what they were in fifties, easier to jump. One thing I do remember is they were complaining about the fences being too inviting. "When I were a lad the fences were vertical and like a brick wall" or words to that effect. I was too young for the names to mean anything, but a lot of fifties jockeys speaking in the eighties said the race was not what it once was. Just as eighties jockeys speak out now. It’s always been the way.
I think the course has been changing from the very beginning when Lottery won in 1839. For instance for the first 5 nationals they used to jump a brick wall. Sited near, or on where the water jump is today.The wall measured 5 foot and was made of stone. Brook number 1 which became Bechers was a 3 1/2 foot timber paling out of a plough with 8 feet of water to clear as well.Brook number 2 (Valantine) had a small bank guarding a deep wide ditch and stout posts and rails, with an overall spread of 9 feet and a considerable drop.
Dictator was the first fatality causing the outcry in the press for the National to be banned.
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