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Ginger, that’s fair comment on the ‘jumping test’ aspect. There will of course be some penalty from a low jump and the result of dragging spruce off etc, but I’d rather see one I backed hit an Aintree fence low than a fence on many other courses. There will be plenty of horses going through the tops of these fences, dislodging spruce who will not attract an error comment in any formbook. There is no obvious momentum loss as there would be on park courses.
Finally, on the hunting round, I needn’t tell you that a field of 40 horses cannot go hell for leather for almost four and a half miles. That won’t stop many of them trying, and it’s the ballsy jockeys who decide to switch off and see what happens that will bring changes in the way the race is run. Instead of having to pick their way through fallers and unseats, the patient riders will just be passing all the pulled-ups who couldn’t handle the pace. I’m not saying it will be this year or next, but as jockeys adjust, I think it will come.
May be a question we should be asking is: Would it be better if
all
fences had an inner core like the Grand National fences? imo Yes.
Going through the very top of a fence has (at least in my racing life time) always been part of a Grand National jump. However, they have made this loose top part bigger. But if a horse takes
too much
of this upper layer away – then it again is bound to alter adversely energy levels left. So would not exactly say it has "no obvious momentum loss".
It really depends on what you mean by "hunting round" Joe. To me it means just getting around the first circuit whatever the pace is like. If so, they will be at a big
dis
advantage.
If you mean those running at an even pace at the back of a field where the early speed has been too fast, then of course those held up ("hunting round") will have a big
ad
vantage. Amount of pace will change the result, ‘Twas always the case.
However, if you look at Grand Nationals of the last twenty years, very few (Neptune Collonges, Amberleigh House) have been won by those truly "held up", even fewer "dropped out" in the early stages. So usually they don’t go too fast early, you don’t get a Crisp or Andy Pandy going clear of their fields these days. Indeed, every jockey knows what happened to your mate Richard Pitman on the run-in, they all want to keep something back for the finish; terrified of being accused of "going too soon". Although there won’t be as many fallers for those hunting round to dodge, I’d much rather back a horse that likes to race prominently/track pace/race mid-div and the reason I’ll probably be against Tidal Bay and Monbeg Dude on the day.
Value Is EverythingOpinions differ, as ever – I think the race is now tailor-made for Tidal Bay as he will need no change of tactics whatever. He’ll drop himself out off a fast pace, jump the last a few lengths behind, take it up just after the elbow and come home to perhaps the greatest roar since Devon Loch
Opinions differ, as ever – I think the race is now tailor-made for Tidal Bay as he will need no change of tactics whatever. He’ll drop himself out off a fast pace, jump the last a few lengths behind, take it up just after the elbow and come home to perhaps the greatest roar since Devon Loch
There’ll be a good roar in my sitting room anyway if the above plays out
Love watching him hunt around the back before making progress, great horse to watch whether you’ve backed him or not. Regarding the OP’s question, I enjoy the Grand National much the same as I always have. I do look forward to it but there are a number of races I’d have ahead of it.
A potential clash between The New One and Annie Power in the Aintree Hurdle, now there’s something to look forward to
Yeah me too. Hoping the New One will come out victorious.
And I have to agree about Tidal Bay. I’ll be wearing a hole in the carpet leaping up and down if he’s anywhere near the front come the end. Fingers crossed!Need to know the names of the three that voted ‘never liked it’ so that they never make my Christmas card list.
I’m with the majority,one reason being the modifications, but maybe the main reason is as been said about things losing their magic as one gets older.
I posted a youtube of the ’81 GN on Bob Champion’s facebook page earlier, now that was magic.
The fences have of course been made easier and i was disappointed with last years race but if you look at last years field they were all in the main reliable jumpers . There have been years when the fences were modified but old style -91 and 92- come to mind that to me were frankly boring races .
I’m guessing they will tweak the fences a bit this year and make it more of a test but like most on here as much as i loved the old nationals over the years i had become uneasy about the race to the point that i felt i couldn’t defend in all honesty.
I’m glad the days of horses dive bombing to the floor at Bechers have gone.It also had a great allure for me as a child. Seeing the dressed fences in colour for the first time in 1977 (we could only ford B&W prior to then!) firmly cemented my obsession. I think that was the same for most kids of my age who loved horse racing. And as I recall the November meeting was scrapped for quite a few years so you only got to see the big eye-catching obstacles once a year.
However as I have got older I am afraid the spectacle of exhausted horses struggling over the finish line has made it a difficult race for me to become enthused about.
I often compare the sight of Pitman and Fletcher nursing their horses over the line in 1973 with the brutal ride Jason Maguire gave Ballabriggs and find myself concluding the sport has changed for the worse and the Grand National no longer holds a special place in my heart.
It is fairly obvious that the subsequent poor win record of GN winners demonstrates that the race takes an enormous physical and mental toll on the horses who are asked by their jockeys to maintain maximum effort right to the finishing line. In the old days the horses were of sturdier build and better equipped to take everything the course could throw at them. The jockeys were less fit and therefore simply incapable of putting the horses through what their modern rider ask of them.
In conclusion I find no enjoyment from a race where the horses contesting the finish are run to the point of complete exhaustion.
At the same time do we not need an end of career goal for horses that haven’t quite reached the heights that were expected of them during their careers, and, if the National didn’t exist we’d need more staying chases. Or are the days of staying chases well and truly over and it will soon be all about speed horses? I find that sad. This is one of the few races that we can still talk about a race that happened 50 years ago and still find it fascinating, and it certainly means a lot to the jockeys that take part as well. Would McCoy have retired a totally happy man if he hadn’t won the race?
I worry about Tidal Bay. He needs to win the National I feel to secure his future
What do you mean moehat? I’ve no doubt Graham Wylie will look after him well in his retirement, win or lose in the National.
Personally I hope no horse favourably treated to the detriment of other runners by Phil Smith wins the race.
Need to know the names of the three that voted ‘never liked it’ so that they never make my Christmas card list.
/quote]I will be one of those not on the Christmas card list, although perhaps I needed an option between never liked and same as always. Was not a horse racing fan as a kid, it was something that interrupted other sports on Grandstand, so wasn’t an event I grew up with.
I’m far from anti Grand National, and will probably watch it. As a handicap it is likely the best horse in the field won’t win, so the deemed importance of the race exceeds what it actually is. Was never a fan of the ‘spectacle’ which can be almost be taken to mean horses falling. This of course means I am in favour of the new changes. The other concern is the potential major influence it has on who ends up as champion trainer and sire given the prize money significantly exceeds any other NH race.
Therefore the ideal result on Saturday is Tidal Bay winning and no fallers. With this result it may catapult me into the sole representative of the more than before option.
eddie; I just worry about his temperament with PN saying he can never retire as a pet. I know the Wylies will look after him but winning the National would be even better as he’d probably stay at PN’s stable. I love the horse to bits. I’ve just had yet another verbal attack on a ‘laidees’ forum about the race. At this time of year I sometimes feel like an abuser of some kind and any mention of the word ‘National’ starts people off lecturing me, so I just surround myself with racing chums
if the next 2or3 nationals are like last years ie:nothing much happens will the general public lose interest in the race?
after all why don’t 8 million tune in and watch the derby?There were 2 deaths over the national course last year; we can argue that one of them wasn’t caused by the fences but it doesn’t matter. The fact remains that this year, or next or at latest the year after that, there will be a high profile death on the Saturday. Where does it go after that? More modifications?
The race’s days are numbered. I can see the meeting surviving as a post Cheltenham Liverpool social highlight, with the national being a 3 mile chase run over park fences. Emasculated a bit like the national hunt chase and quickly forgot as a once prestigious event.
(For a flat analogy how about the city and suburban hcap? Crazy race over a crazy course, had its balls cut off in the 80s and still survives as a zombie event)
It also had a great allure for me as a child. Seeing the dressed fences in colour for the first time in 1977 (we could only ford B&W prior to then!) firmly cemented my obsession. I think that was the same for most kids of my age who loved horse racing. And as I recall the November meeting was scrapped for quite a few years so you only got to see the big eye-catching obstacles once a year.
However as I have got older I am afraid the spectacle of exhausted horses struggling over the finish line has made it a difficult race for me to become enthused about.
I often compare the sight of Pitman and Fletcher nursing their horses over the line in 1973 with the brutal ride Jason Maguire gave Ballabriggs and find myself concluding the sport has changed for the worse and the Grand National no longer holds a special place in my heart.
It is fairly obvious that the subsequent poor win record of GN winners demonstrates that the race takes an enormous physical and mental toll on the horses who are asked by their jockeys to maintain maximum effort right to the finishing line. In the old days the horses were of sturdier build and better equipped to take everything the course could throw at them. The jockeys were less fit and therefore simply incapable of putting the horses through what their modern rider ask of them.
In conclusion I find no enjoyment from a race where the horses contesting the finish are run to the point of complete exhaustion.
That’s an excellent post. Bravo!
In particular, your point about how jockeys no longer nurse their mounts and are more "professional" is a brilliant one. Don’t you think this epitomises the "win at all costs" mentality which is now pervasive in modern culture in general?
However as I have got older I am afraid the spectacle of exhausted horses struggling over the finish line has made it a difficult race for me to become enthused about.
I often compare the sight of Pitman and Fletcher nursing their horses over the line in 1973 with the brutal ride Jason Maguire gave Ballabriggs and find myself concluding the sport has changed for the worse and the Grand National no longer holds a special place in my heart.
Rose tinted spectacles methinks, Pitman was capable of doing nothing else on Crisp although I wouldn’t describe it as nursing him home, Fletcher always knew he was going to get there as Red Rum was finishing, would he get there in time was the only question.
Just go back to 1971 and 1972 the whip was free flowing in the finishes, what about Black Secret’s rider in 71? And the whips were more lethal then.
The race was much tougher in those days, look at the difference in the fences and horse welfare is much better now, could the horses always be guaranteed even a drink of water in the old days?There just happens to be a lot more in depth analysis these days but I don’t find anything wrong with the riding at all.
I’ve gone off the race not because of the riding but because of all the alterations to the race particularly the fences. It should be the supreme jumping test, it is no longer.Interesting that not one person has voted that they enjoy the race more now.
There just happens to be a lot more in depth analysis these days but I don’t find anything wrong with the riding at all.
I’ve gone off the race not because of the riding but because of all the alterations to the race particularly the fences. It should be thesupreme jumping test
, it is no longer.
Interesting that
not one
person has voted that they enjoy the race more now.
Comparing enjoyment now to when first discovering racing, I dare say very few (if any) of us would enjoy any race as much as we did then, let alone the National.
I don’t enjoy the Grand National as much as when Red Rum was at the height of his potency and racing first caught my eye. Then it became an obsession through the early and middle eighties. But had a reality check in 1989. Seeandem and Brown Trix’s deaths at Becher’s, with latter being pulled out of the brook – was a reality check. Despite my West Tip (2nd) each way bet; I did not enjoy the race and vowed that day not to bet in the race again unless it changed. It did, but since then I’ve always known the risks involved; so generally don’t "enjoy" the race as much as when a naive youth.
Did I enjoy last year’s race more than Red Rum winning? No
Did I enjoy last year’s race more than West Tip winning? No
Did I enjoy last year’s race more than 1989? You bet I did!Mind you, it helped winning four figures for the second successive year.
Two outsiders winning the last two runnings. Most TRFers did not back either of them. When people look back they tend to think of the happy days, the winning days. Past glories will always win against losing days.
To win or be placed is
still
the
"supreme jumping test"
it always was; a lot of horses who used to fall now lose energy and pull up or finish tailed off instead. Nothing wrong with that imo.
Those who need to see horses fall to enjoy their racing won’t like it Eddie. I prefer it, as long as they water enough to slow them down.
Value Is Everything
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