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Ian, my point is that the horseman side of things comes from the interest in and production of horses from the start, not buying from the sale. Alot of these top horses are private sales – or bought after one run direct from the trainers (lots of French horses are bought this way). If you look at the winning horses and the dams – many have never seen the sales rings. UK just don’t have that sort of interest in the production side of things, perhaps the breeders have a say in where their horses go, there are wheels within wheels when it comes to breeding and where the youngsters go. Yes some are bought at the sales like Monkfish – but many have not seen a sales ring. UK need to dig harder and be more interested in production.
All interesting points IMO and thank you for the clarification.
However, Nicky Henderson has trained 64 Festival winners and Paul Nicholls 45.
They haven’t stopped knowing what they are doing overnight.
The reality for me is that they used to have more money behind them, there’s all.
They weren’t “better” back then and the Irish aren’t “better” now.
A combination of fewer wealthy owners backing the Henderson and Nicholls yards and exchange rate fluctuations tilting the scales is the real answer IMO.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I’m not sure that touting the ‘rubbish prize money’ argument is particularly persuasive on a day where racing starts with a £25,000 walkover.
Mike
I think you’re all missing out on the way the Irish state supports horse racing. For Boris Johnson it’s way down the list and can only be a hassle. Irish governments, for the moment, see the value there is in racing. Part of that is the traditional parties in control (a change in who governs could change things up.) Part of it is the money for the Irish economy it produces, through various, if small tax income, but also directly and indirectly in employment, and indirectly from the taxes on employment and tourism. And part of that, very much so, is fueled by there being a general appreciation for horse racing above what there would be in Britain. It’s not as strong as it was, there are definitely people complaining that however million goes to horse racing should be going to homeless people, but the governments that we have (and have had) at some level appreciate what horse racing provides. Horse racing is a medium sized fish in a small pond in Ireland, in the UK it’s a small fish in a large pond, at least in public perception and how it contributes to the state, culture, economy, etc.
If it makes anyone feel better , you could ask the question how much behind the Southern stables are the Northern ones. The happy days of Dickinson and Easterby having superstars are long gone. As someone living in the North I dont worry if the winners are from the South or Ireland , they’re all from stables nowhere near me. The big owners obviously dont think much of having horses based in the North , yet given a decent horse many trainers are very capable. Just putting things into perspective if you’re a Nicholls , Henderson , Tizzard fan. It could be worse , they could be based in the North.
Anyone who has watched the Avengers…
Mullins: I have an army.
Henderson: We have a Shishkin.
Mike,
That walkover was a freak – the race in question is only open to horses that were eliminated from a handicap chase at Cheltenham. In past years, that has been OK to produce a competitive event. It was always designed as a consolation race with those conditions.
This year, because entries and runners were down, only one race had a maximum field and Marracudja was the only horse eliminated whose connections had paid the entry fee for this race. The removal of the novice handicap chase from the program to allow Mr Mullins another freebie would also have reduced the numbers eligible for this race.
I’m sure they’ll change the conditions next year!
Heres a theory which I’m happy to have knocked back..
Apart from Skelton, there’s a bit of a lack of younger trainers snapping at the heels of the old guard in the U.K.? I doubt this has any effect on the skills of said trainers but perhaps not the appetite there was to court the richest owners (which which must be a drag a lot of the time )?
Denise Foster is ahead of Ben Pauling in the UK trainers championship and she is only 42k behind Harry Fry.
More remarkably Henry DeBromhead is 4th and only 200k behind Nicky Henderson
26 runners v 438 runners.
Top 10 currently are
1. Nicholls
2. Skelton
3. Henderson
4. DeBromhead
5. Jonjo
6. Willie Mullins
7. Twiston Davies
8. Fergal O Brien
9. Colin Tizzard
10. Alan KingI don’t know any of the smaller time trainers, but I do think Bryony Frost could come out in years to come as a really good quality trainer, should she choose to take it up when she retires. Other jockeys seem to have a natural instinct on how to judge a ride while they’re on them, from her interviews, to me, it seems like she has a far more intellectual knowledge (this could be that she’s willing to open her mouth more, as well, but she does speak well.) I think she has a charm about her, too, that’d be great for getting owners in.
Whatever about having to be ruthless as a trainer, and doing what’s necessary for a win, I think Frost has the people skills for the owner side, good knowledge about individual horses, and it’s obvious she has a real love for the animals, which might be a downside in some ways, but could easily be used to her advantage.
Crisis?
What crisis?
“Home” win in the Midlands Grand National yesterday, though the winner was, err, owned by an Irishman, trained by an Irishman, ridden by his son and, err, bred in Ireland.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Interesting points raised by FiftyP regarding the relative place of racing in the national psyche.
Had Irish racing been obliterated 23-5, I would hazard a guess that there would be a national conversation about what can be done to remedy things. Not saying that it would be splashed across the front pages, but it would almost certainly make the news and non-racing discussion programmes.
On this side of the Irish Sea, I have yet to see any mention of the lopsided scoreline outside the dedicated racing media.
I feel that going into a panic because the Irish dominated this year’s Cheltenham smacks of English exceptionalism which tends to emerge whenever the mighty English get beaten at anything….as if England expects and has a divine right to win everything.
Henderson,Nicholls,King,Skelton,Twiston Davies,Tizzard,Hobbs are all still who they are but for whatever reason they didn’t have good Cheltenham’s ,I don’t see a crisis just because of that as much as I see it as one of those things that could ‘just happen’ in any particular year.
Racing journalists like having something to catastrophise about and talk the sport into the ground over and racing people love the excuse to jump on the more prize money bandwagon as if it’s the magic solution to every problem in the sport when in fact better prize money away from the top tier events would be better for the long term health of the sport.
Just to clarify, my last post was tongue in cheek (many are) and the whole “Team England” v “Team Ireland” thing has never been of the remotest interest to me.
I am all about “Team Me,” and so long as I have backed the winner I don’t care if its trained in England, Ireland – or on the Moon!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I would suggest Wexford that you take your stupid anglophobia somewhere else
Name the sports where the English state that it’s “their divine right” to “win everything”
You can’t
What you say is absolute bullocks
I’m with Ian here, the whole “Team Britain” vs “Team Ireland” is made such a big deal by those TV announcers and to be fair Channel 4 did the same. Not sure if the beeb did the same back when it was just 3 day festival but they probably did. This annoys me slightly as I thought each trainer is trying to win the race for themselves and their owners. I know like when I place a bet on a horse the last thing I’m thinking of is whether it’s a GB horse or Irish, I’m just thinking is it good enough.
The best things in life are free.
But you can give them to the birds and bees.
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