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But never went through the sales ring!
Horses only have to appear in the catalogue, so what’s to stop anyone entering any horse they want with absolutely no intention of putting it through the ring but with the sole intention of withdrawing it from the sale then running it in the race?
Surely horses should have to go through the ring rather than just appear in a catalogue.
- Total Posts 17716
… so what’s to stop anyone entering any horse they want with absolutely no intention of putting it through the ring but with the sole intention of withdrawing it from the sale then running it in the race?
Nothing. But the breeders are not going to go to the expense of nominating a yearling for the sale simply to get a sneaky entry for the sales races.
The entry involves, for example, a thorough and costly vet’s examination (a bit like a thorough house survey before the sale of a house). In the case of Fury, this showed up chips in his knees which would have meant selling him at a fraction of what his breeder considered a true reflection of his potential.
I am quite sure that you are not accusing the Cheveley Park Stud of malpractice. They dispose of almost all their colt foals and yearlings at the sales, retaining only the fillies. But in any case, breeders who started to get a reputation for shady dealing would soon be out of business. Breeding is, more than most, a self-regulating and self-policing market.
Agreed Yeats – I don’t think there’s any suggestion of malpractice Pinza but it does seem a loophole. With the huge prizes on offer in these races the cost of appearing in a sales catalogue may be money well spent in ensuring en antry qualification.
If they’re unsold in the ring that’s another thing but they should have to go through the ring.- Total Posts 17716
Logically we might think so. But it’s not so clear cut, as the high fee for entering a yearling in Tattersall’s Book One
includes
entry into their sales races. So your suggestion might prove commercially as well as practically impossible.
Extreme cases make bad law, and I don’t think this circumstance has occurred before. Breeders will not be keen to in effect sponsor a race in which they don’t have a guaranteed entry, due to vet’s reports or whatever Act of God might stop an actual ring appearance. You know what they say:
no taxation without representation
!
I was hoping that someone would mention Fury, because I was curious to know what colour he is; is he a dun or a roan? Very unusual colour/markings he has.
I was hoping that someone would mention Fury, because I was curious to know what colour he is; is he a dun or a roan? Very unusual colour/markings he has.
He’s registered grey/bay. Many greys are born dark and his sales entry has him registered bay, but I would say he is definitely going to wind up grey. His dam, Courting, is grey and if you look at her sales history there are two foals (Vibe and Secret History) who are first listed as BR but later as grey so I would say he will be like them.
At the moment he reminds me of some Roselier offspring that I’ve seen – a sort of pinkish/pewtery colour (remember Kendall Cavalier?).
- Total Posts 17716
It would be nuts to put a horse into a sale to get him entered in a sales race. If you did you’d need to know he was good enough to start with and secondly you’d need acrazy reserve on him to make sure no one bought him from underneath you.
The idea would make a good Dick Fancis novel though
A loophole is only a loophole if someone uses it and stabbing a guess no one is going to, unless they’re 2 sandwiches short of a picnic.
Nice name that "Fury" I will await the royalties
He is definitely grey.
Some horses turn grey more quickly than others, and you do get bays/browns/chestnuts who have the odd grey hair here or there…just as in people!
He can’t be roan. The roaning gene does not exist within the thorougbred population.
The eligibility conditions are quite clear and available to all on the Tattersalls website. The relevant clause reads :
All lots withdrawn with a satisfactory Veterinary Certificate provided that commission of 2.5% of the average price of the Sale (Tattersalls October Yearling Sale, Book 1) has been paid by the vendor.
If I’d bought a horse a year ago and laid out a small fortune on entry fees, I’d be more annoyed about being stuck with a draw that meant I had no chance before the off, rather than worrying about whether all my rivals were eligible for the race.
AP
He can’t be roan. The roaning gene does not exist within the thorougbred population.
I’m in need of some clarification Venusian
Do you mean all those TBs who’ve been registered as roan (ro) aren’t actually roan but gr/b or whatever?
Or by "roaning" do you mean a horse cannot develop a roan coat as it ages?
Incidentally, do you (or anyone) know of a website that explains the genetics of TB coat colour e.g what hues are dominant and which recessive?
Angrovestud’s skewbald has kindled an interest
Drone,
Yes, all those thoroughbreds described as roan are grey.
A roan horse is born roan, it doesn’t progressively manifest itself over a horse’s lifetime like grey does.
This forum might help too.
He can’t be roan. The roaning gene does not exist within the thorougbred population.
I’m in need of some clarification Venusian
Do you mean all those TBs who’ve been registered as roan (ro) aren’t actually roan but gr/b or whatever?
Or by "roaning" do you mean a horse cannot develop a roan coat as it ages?
Incidentally, do you (or anyone) know of a website that explains the genetics of TB coat colour e.g what hues are dominant and which recessive?
Angrovestud’s skewbald has kindled an interest
The Jockey Club made the decision that a horse could be registered as "grey or roan", which wasn’t necessarily agreed with by breeders! Roans will not "go grey" and I suspect most roan registered horses do in fact go grey with time. Also, if I remember rightly, roans will have a solid coloured or much darker head.
Someone posted an article on Horse&Hound about colour:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/s … p?t=112622There’s a website of coat colours and this page talks about the "roan" debate:
http://www.whitehorseproductions.com/tbcolor2.htmlIf you have a look at the other pages you might think "hey, I’ve seen something like that" and if you have you will probably be thinking Pancake, who is a sabino!
Oh, and a vet site…
Many thanks Roseblossom, just the job
Was wholly unaware of the ‘roan problem’ hence my questioning of Venusian’s post
Think I’m the human equivalent of the ‘bloody shoulder marks’ TB: my curly locks remain a youthful brown(ish) but my beard is grey
Always thought horses had to go through the ring to be eligible for such races, it was only when Haggas was interviewed after the race by Lydia that I realised this wasn’t the case. Something just doesn’t seem right to me about horses not having gone through the ring running in these races.
If you have a yearling who you hold in high regard and the sale is for quality and cream of the crop horses, there is every reason why you may not want your horse to go through the ring. You could be run up to a very high price by the likes of Coolmore & Godolphin costing you considerably more than the 2.5% of the average which was approx. £2,800 last year.
In any case taking Fury as an example you are getting 100/1 for your £2,800 with prize money 100 times that, not bad for a 11/2 shot at the off, not taking into account entry fees of course which every horse has to pay anyway.
While there is a loophole such as this it will be exploited in the future even if it hasn’t in the past and maybe sales races should be restricted to horses that have gone through the ring, surely for the sake of a few quid it’s worth having that eligibility in the interests of integrity and fairness. After all, there are group races horses such as Fury could run in.
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