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Given the various charges half the jockey population seem to be facing how long do you think it will be before they get rid of the traditional handicap system (Which can easily be played: See barney curley, Sir Mark etc) and replace it with something akin to the American allowance/claiming/stakes races which makes playing (cheating) the system much more difficult….
I agree DJ. They may change the way horses qualify for them but they will still be with us.<br>Do you think they might have gone metric in 100 years?
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysIt would be interesting to know your theories as to why they will still be here. Is it purely to do with racing’s dislike of change or are there stronger reasons?
Thanks for your contribution, Mr Bin Laden. Getting a bit bored in that cave, are we?
Surely the handicap system has got to be tweaked again if not changed completely.<br>If you were a trainer with moderate horses would you always run them to the best of their ability, over suitable ground, and adequate distances?<br>
Many owners do not like running even moderate horses in claimers. They dont want to lose them. The American claiming system does tend to treat horses as commodities to be bought and sold whereas we traditionally consider them as pets. I think this commodity approach might explain why the Americans are happy to run horses on Bute etc – masking the pain but not curing the cause of the pain.
Jade, I think it would be a bit naive to think that people in the UK don’t view horses as a commodity.. There are people who treat them as pets but in the main they are still commodities.. Otherwise there are a lot of people with very expensive pets…
Galejade’s point is an accurate one well made.
In the US, handicappers when watching a particular race, will often cheer on numbers, ("hold on, the three, c’mon the six") rather than incanting the horse’s given name as you would find here, in a city Ladbrokes. There’s a different attitude.
Handicaps go back to the very roots of racing here. I can’t see them being replaced. Maybe the question ought to be how long has traditional bookmaking got left?
Max, not quite sure what your saying there, "Handicappers cheer numbers"? Do you mean punters? In which case, we all treat horses as commodities because we trade on them…
I reckon handicaps are with us for many generations yet. By and large they offer the truest-run races in the calendar and, given their purpose is to give each horse an equal chance of winning, they tend to offer punters the chance to win more (via longer odds) than stakes/claiming races.
I reckon when claiming races were first introduced there was an unwritten law that you didn’t claim anything if the connections made it clear they didn’t want to part with the horse, which in turn led to some very iffy races. Now the entrants are very much up for grabs and I have no sympathy for anyone who puts their horse in such a race if they wish to keep it.
Most of my bets are in handicaps because of the odds I can get.
Aragorn,
If you are right there would be a clamour for more claimers and those that we have would be better supported. We have, rightly or wrongly, gone for the banded stakes system instead
Maxilon.
Most owners IMO would prefer the American or French pool betting system which pump a lot of money back into racing leading to higher prize money and owners and breeders premiums. They are also pretty leary about Betting Exchanges which create far more bookmakers!
Nor1
It depends on whom racing is being run for. Whilst punters will fight to protect their interests Owners who receive only 21% return of their costs will argue that they should have the system which suits them. He who pays the Piper should call the tune is a common cry.
On another thread the excitement of watching horses racing to win is being discussed. All racing should be the like this. <br>Moderate horses do not know they are not running in a Group1 race and why should this matter? <br>What they probably do know is that they are carrying extra lumps of lead (if they have won in their previous race/s), or that they are being asked to run in quick succession (to beat the handicapper).<br>I do not know why it is necessary for a horse to be weighted to stop winning. Surely a system could be devised where equal ability is matched more closely than simply weighting them to the hilt. <br>If you discuss the handicap system with youngsters who love watching horses run, they will look at you in disbelief.
Aragorn. I race quite a bit in the States – I’m off Monday as it happens, flights permitting – and American punters call themselves Handicappers. Sorry for any confusion.
Galejade,
Most owners IMO would prefer the American or French pool betting system which pump a lot of money back into racing leading to higher prize money and owners and breeders premiums
Can the present financial situation in Horse Racing be sustained without considering this model for the future?
A poster on here, when discussing the case for and against the PMU model, said that any Government could not afford the consequent compensation to the three national chains.
Yet Horse Racing – so we are continually being told – forms a smaller and smaller slice of the off-course bookmaking cake.
Surely the time is perfect to put this matter back on the wider agenda.  Would they make similar profits by operating a newly implemented PMU system on a commission basis?  I don’t know.
To keep the thread on-topic, higher prize money through PMU theoretically leads to truer performance (through increased owner incentive), which to some extent negates the question about claimers vs handicaps.
Quote: from bluechariot on 1:35 pm on Aug. 11, 2006[br]There will be no racing in 100 years time. Sharia law throughout the world.<br>
<br>Most accurate post of the lot.
I like to think I have a decent enough knowledge of horse racing all round, although my betting knowledge is shoddy and always will be. However I’d like to get to grips with understanding handicapping a bit more, as at the moment it still confuses me as much as it always has! Is there a website or something that breaks the whole thing down so it’s more digestible? I’m crap with numbers!
While handicaps can be exciting races to watch, I get far more excited by Group races with smaller fields, but that’s by-the-by.
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