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I’ve always thought the notion that horses ‘know’ when they’ve won to be ludicruous.
A horse has no more knowledge that it’s past a certain point on the racecourse quicker than the other horses and that this accomplishemnt somehow means something than I have about particle physics.
Does anyone think horses have a clue whether they’ve ‘won’ a race or not?
I think it’s doubtful they pull up thinking ‘Yes, I’ve just won the Victoria Cup’ but perhaps there is something about the ‘winning’ experience that makes them want to win again. Perhaps they associate finishing in front of the herd with some nice congratulatory pats, etc. On the other hand maybe some winners remember the crowds cheering and the attendant hoo-ha and don’t want to repeat the experience.
You do read about certain trainers training in such a way that they ensure horses end up in front of their training companions and I wonder whether that actually does have an affect on the horses psychology. Do horses have ‘confidence’? And, if they do, can we artificially manipulate it to increase their performance level when they reach the racecourse.
What about the professional loser, the horse who just won’t go past another one. What is it about him that makes him different from the horse who will take to the front and stride away from the rest?
Any thoughts on this anyone?
(Yes, it is a quiet Friday here!)
(Edited by cormack15 at 12:19 pm on April 14, 2006)
Very interesting question.
As a working example what about Rooster Booster?
I’ve always thought there must have been something in his head that made him suddenly start winning instead of placing. <br>
I have known horses who completely changed in character after winning.<br>One, who had numerous losing runs and was very docile<br>became almost untouchable. Another, who slouched around with head down and no eye contact became bold and confident.<br>Perhaps it is the attention and praise after their first win that perks them up.
Interesting stuff Nor –
I haven’t read any books on the subject but presumably the likes of Monty Roberts has quite a bit to say on horse psychology but I wonder if it relates directly to racing and the  ‘horse psychology’ of competitive events?
Are horses naturally competitive? I presume yes but that they compete primarily for dominance in the herd and the associated breeding/feeding rights? Can that in some way be translated to the artificial world of horse racing.<br>
(Edited by cormack15 at 2:27 pm on April 14, 2006)
A few years ago I had the pleasure of “doing evening stablesâ€ÂÂ
Very interesting Wallace, especially the bit about the stupid/smart horses. I’ve wondered about that before. A smart horse would surely stay, or try to stay, in the centre of the herd where he at least risk of being attacked by marauding wild beasts. Those stupid ones bounding off in front would, converesly, face the prospect of an interview with Thommo! There may be something in it.
Interesting comments re- Prescott. <br>
no, i don’t think they know they’ve won as that would be assuming they know they are in a race to a set finishing line as opposed to just running. they run because it’s in their animal instinct to run and run in herds. some will always be faster and if they were that intelligent they’d know that if they didn’t run fast or at all, the nasty big man training them every day would leave them alone and stop putting the nasty little mr whippy on their back. not saying their not intelligent or great animals it’s just not rocket science to train something to do what it does naturally – the skill comes into making them do it better and how you want it and keeping them tip-top fit – that’s where the better trainers and riders get the best out of the better (and maybe somewhat dimmer) horses, imo.
I know I’d be interested to find out, and not just from a punting angle. The difficulty arises in the horse’s capacity to think: if it is eased up a furlong from home (by mistake) it won’t know in itself to head for the finishing line at full pelt regardless of an absent-minded jockey. I would have thought a horse could only associate "winning" with rewards, cherishing, etc. All I can say from my work is that there is a very rich tradition of horsemen cherishing and praising horses after achieving what was desired, but whether this translates to the racecourse for that extra few pounds of form I’m not so sure…I agree with the herd instincts/middle of the pack thing, but some horses must surely enjoy more than anything a spin at full tilt, as I did until I hit 30 and couldn’t recover for days afterwards…!
Perhaps it is the attention and praise after their first win that perks them up.
Quite possibly.
On a related topic, I had a girlfriend who was a fairly high class dressage rider and she told me once that her horse always knew when he had put in a good performance (whether in training or in competition) and that his body language was very different after a good session (I think she said he acted "proud of himself" ).
Steve
(Edited by stevedvg at 3:31 pm on April 14, 2006)
Trackside – you know I actually had George Washington in mind also. Here is a horse who apparently enjoys being dominant at home so maybe he can be a sort of worked example for our theorising!
My old horse bookiesindexdotcom was one of the cleverest horses my trainer said he had ever trained, she managed to twice open her own stable door from the inside by putting her head out and undoing the bolt with her mouth something he said in 20 years he had never seen before.
To cut a long story short I’m convinced she had lots of ability, but never won a race after 26 starts all because of her attitude, so yes I would go along with the theory that the smart horses are the ones at the back!!
heya, <br>i think horses know when they have won or not, when ted won the stayers he was really prancing around like he was the king or something but when he came second at newbury he looked really upset with his head down but then again it could be the vibes the crowd and groom are giving them as they walk in.
meg xx
Quote: from alan1 on 4:43 pm on April 14, 2006[br]My old horse bookiesindexdotcom was one of the cleverest horses my trainer said he had ever trained, she managed to twice open her own stable door from the inside by putting her head out and undoing the bolt with her mouth something he said in 20 years he had never seen before.
John Jenkins wasn’t it? I’m gobsmacked if he has never seen a horse do that before ~ I didn’t think it was that unusual and have seen a few try in my limited experience in stables.
Our little rescue pony used to do that too, Rory.
Re: the whole herd instinct thing – the herd would always have a leader (usually one boss mare and one boss stallion).  Some horses are born leaders, and enjoy being in front. ÂÂÂ
Maybe winning a race gives horses the rush of adrenalin or testosterone connected with dominating the herd.  Some like it, and some probably don’t fancy the responsibility.
I was just thinking the very same Rory, i’ve known a few horses do that. ÂÂÂ
One night we’d come back to the yard around 3.30am and had to walk past the bottom row of stables to get to the caravans.  We noticed there was some shadows lurking, and thought it was the ghost of Bill Pearce! But no, one of the horses had let itself out and was wandering round the yard. ÂÂÂ
Ali Oasis could get his rugs off over his head (even with a fillet string and girth straps on!!!), every morning there’d be a pile of rugs outside his door!  When he was tied up Saros could get a headcoller or bridle off his head and if the door wasn’t bolted shut he’d get loose!
Back to the subject, yes i believe horses do know when they’ve won, purely because of the praise and body language from connections towards them. ÂÂÂ
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