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The hurdle argument is a fatuous one.
Arkle was a very average hurdler, to put it mildly.
Denman was born to jump fences.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
it will be a close race but kauto has the speed and i cant see denman pulling away from him like those yesterday
really yesterday what had the form to beat denman the main challenger snowymorning fell early on who was running on last time they met and was better off in the weights yesterday i think it could of been different if had stayed on his feetwith Denman finishing so far ahead of all the others [and annoyingly I didn’t video the race] can anyone please give me a breakdown of the finishing order of the other horses – just thinking ahead to next years National etc….thanks
From RP
PHIL SMITH, the British Horseracing Authority senior handicapper, rates Denman 1lb inferior to Exotic Dancer after his weight-defying triumphin the Hennessy Cognac Gold Cup.
Smith places Paul Nicholls’ imposing chaser on a perch of 176, from a mark of 161, following his awesome 11-length success at Newbury on Saturday.
"He’s right up there with the other two stars that we’ve got, Exotic Dancer and Kauto Star," insisted Smith.
"But because he hasn’t done it in a Grade 1 event yet, whereas the other two have, I’m going to put him a pound behind Exotic Dancer on 176.
I can’t see the relevance of not having "done it in a Grade 1".
Winning a competitive handicap like the Hennessy off top weight gives the form more relevance than winning most Grade 1s imo.
He’s probably playing safe TDK
RP have altered Denman
2:40 Denman 3m2½f 6m 58.60s 15.8s +23.60s +0.89s -1.04s/f 148 180 Soft Soft
though result page RPRs have not been altered yet
with Denman finishing so far ahead of all the others [and annoyingly I didn’t video the race] can anyone please give me a breakdown of the finishing order of the other horses – just thinking ahead to next years National etc….thanks
It’s on U-tube mate..In case you don’t know you will need a flv player if you dont have one.
http://www.download.com/FLV-Player/3000 … 67081.html
Also get a hold of orbit downloader http://www.orbitdownloader.com/
you will find Grab ++ under tools in Orbit….open that before you start the video on U-tube……you can then download it…….when you have it drag it and drop it into the FLV player and bingo.
RH – It seems bizarre to me to criticise Denman for coming 2nd in a Sun Alliance hurdle, yet ignore Kauto’s numerous defeats over hurdles simply because you are "unable to make a proper judgement".
I also don’t think that possessing a "turn of foot" is generally the decisive factor in winning a Cheltenham Gold Cup.
I agree with you but that’s simply because not many 3 mile plus chasers have the devastaing turn of foot associated with Kauto Star..if any..Even Denman won’t be able to take kauto of his feet nor will he be able to cope with his speed. Kauto will win the Gold Cup by about 5 to 10 lengths. I believe he’s abetter horse this year than last year and still only about 90% right….come Gold Cup day those who doubt him will eat their words.
He’s probably playing safe TDK
RP have altered Denman
2:40 Denman 3m2½f 6m 58.60s 15.8s +23.60s +0.89s -1.04s/f 148 180 Soft Soft
though result page RPRs have not been altered yet
Racing Post have Denman 180?
That is ludicrous. For winning a hancicap chase – on ground that probably exagerated distances – by ten lengths off a mark of 161 he’s been raised nineteen pounds?
Can’t have that.
I’ve had a long day and can’t be arsed to argue with you.
I will still be here next year as I hope you will. One of us will be right the other will not.
Best ot luck – sincerely – and speak to you re: this in March.
In addition, if Kauto Star beats Denman, wherever and whenever it may be, I will cover him with the same praise you and others do as it will be fully deserved.
I can live with that
Anyone know the reason why the ratings guy gave an initial RPR of 175 to Denman and has now amended it to 180?
- Total Posts 17716
Here you go BB – from the horse’s mouth:
Looking ahead to the Gold Cup, it’s got to be Kauto Star over Exotic Dancer and Denman if the ground is good. On the ratings I have Kauto as a superior horse.
“For Saturday’s Hennessy win I rated Denman at 180 and for comparison purposes the previous highest in this race was back in 1997 when Suny Bay earned a figure of 174.
“I am fairly confident that Denman’s winning display is worth a figure of 175 –185 but it is not easy to pin down. I’ve pitched it in the middle but I fear it is likely to be too high rather than too low.
“Visually Denman was very impressive on Saturday but I’m not 100 per cent convinced that it is absolutely 100 per cent rock solid form, but either way it is high-class form.
“Last year I was confident that Kauto Star was worth the 184 for winning the Betfair. At the moment Denman is on a par with Exotic Dancer but Kauto Star is clear of the pair.â€
Awesome performance from Denman. He is the one to beat in the Gold Cup now.
Fully agree. Sit him anywhere among the first 4 in the GC, watch him take it up going out on the final circuit, gradually wind things up and they won’t get past him.
I would say that was absolutely correct DJ.
Hmm. Gareth, I wish you’d have brought this back to the top on Friday morning, I’d forgot I’d been so bullish!
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