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The betting suggested he was expected to win and he did just that, but he is no Arkle.
Why not? What did Arkle do that Denman couldn’t (leaving Kempton out of the equation)?
How about he beat a horse just as good as Denman if not better by 24 lengths. A race in which he gave him 16lbs and knocked………wait for it…….16 seconds off the track record at Sandown.
Or if you like. Won the Gold Cup at 1/10 by 30 lenths and sprinted up the hill like a greyhound (Sort of like Master Minded 2 years ago but faster)
or passed 3 horses in mid air with jumping that would make a stag look slow and could gain 3 lengths on you in half a dozen strides.
or consider ratings if that’s your thing…..Arkle 212 against Denman 185 at his peak means Denman would ahve been out of the handicap even if Arkle had carried 12st10lbs
Kinda hard to take it all in but you really had to be there to appreciate just how good he was.
have to say i thought denman was unbeleivable today wiv the weight he was carrying he showed some of his raw fighting instinct, am so pleased for connections, just hope he comes out well 2moz .
xThe betting suggested he was expected to win and he did just that, but he is no Arkle.
Why not? What did Arkle do that Denman couldn’t (leaving Kempton out of the equation)?
How about he beat a horse just as good as Denman if not better by 24 lengths. A race in which he gave him 16lbs and knocked………wait for it…….16 seconds off the track record at Sandown.
Or if you like. Won the Gold Cup at 1/10 by 30 lenths and sprinted up the hill like a greyhound (Sort of like Master Minded 2 years ago but faster)
or passed 3 horses in mid air with jumping that would make a stag look slow and could gain 3 lengths on you in half a dozen strides.
or consider ratings if that’s your thing…..Arkle 212 against Denman 185 at his peak means Denman would ahve been out of the handicap even if Arkle had carried 12st10lbs
Kinda hard to take it all in but you really had to be there to appreciate just how good he was.
What he said!
Great performance by Denman today. I for one thought the horse was finished but he proved today he was back to his best. Hopefully both the Nicholls horses along with Cooldine and Imperial Commander make it to Cheltenham. Could be a vintage Gold Cup.
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A quite wonderful effort from Denman
What makes it remarkable isn’t the fact that the horse won a 2nd Hennessy, or that he defied a mark of 174 – it is the manner of his resurgence from his lacklustre efforts of last season.
Make no mistake – this was a truly great sporting comeback, the like of which is rarely, if ever, seen on a racecourse. How many times do you see a formerly great horse lose his brilliance for a whole season and then return in this style? It simply doesn’t happen – well, not until today…
I’m quite happy to be added to the list of people who thought he was appalling value today at 9-2 BTW.
Nice post TDK but a bit over the top to be honest.
Wonderful? yes–Remarkable he recovered? hardly. Remarkable he won a second Hennessy? Oh ye of little faith
Let’s take a look at what Denman went through. He had a heart murmer which is in no way life threatening. Many dogs get the same thing and get no treatment for it and it just simply goes away.
Deman was given some pills, rested and by Feb was back on the race course. In total he started his season 1 race behind schedule and 8 weeks later than the season before.
He gets to Kempton well short of peak fitness but comes out of it well enough to run in the Gold Cup. Still not 100% he is given a brilliant and caring ride by Sam Thomas and finsihes 2nd. He goes to Aintree shortly after the Gold Cup and is running a stormer when he falls.
I never for one minute thought we had seen the last of Denman it’s not like he was a basket case and rose from the dead PN simply took it easy on the horse, knowing he needed the time..
I do agree many don’t come back but the rate for full recovery from Denman’s ailment is very high.
Great to see all the same and PN has been patient and done a great job to get him back to his brilliant best
The betting suggested he was expected to win and he did just that, but he is no Arkle.
Why not? What did Arkle do that Denman couldn’t (leaving Kempton out of the equation)?
How about he beat a horse just as good as Denman if not better by 24 lengths. A race in which he gave him 16lbs and knocked………wait for it…….16 seconds off the track record at Sandown.
Or if you like. Won the Gold Cup at 1/10 by 30 lenths and sprinted up the hill like a greyhound (Sort of like Master Minded 2 years ago but faster)
or consider ratings if that’s your thing…..Arkle 212 against Denman 185 at his peak means Denman would ahve been out of the handicap even if Arkle had carried 12st10lbs
Phil Bull hated jumps races, he left the ratings to the tea boy. 212 is nonsensical. Late 190s tops with Denman on about 187/8 after today.
How many runners were there in Arkle’s Gold Cup’s? I’m thinking half a dozen or less, certainly not the 12 that lined up in 2008. Imagine that Gold Cup without Kauto and Neptune Collonges and a couple of back markers and you probably have a similar kind of race.
No, i’m not gonna claim Denman is as good but I wouldn’t have Arkle as more than a ten pound better animal – praise enough imo.- Total Posts 17716
Denman is top class, of that there is little doubt, but people seem to be confusing a story of achievement with a stunningly crafted fairy-tale. If there has ever been a horse built to carry weight it’s Denman and handicaps are pronounced to be racing’s levellers; so what is remarkable, from a form perspective, of defying one’s mark?
Today was a wonderful advert for racing and a worthy reward for the dedication and diligence of connections (though I could have survived without having to suffer Harry Findlay), but we’re in danger of getting a little too carried away by a performance which people are appraising with their hearts, rather than their heads.
If Kauto Star wins the King George as well as he has done for the last few seasons and is then turned over by Denman at Cheltenham, then I’ll happily review my position (not that my opinion is worth all that much of course). Until then, my judgement is (perhaps not so) reserved.
After that performance it now looks like a match between the Nicholls pair for the Gold Cup! COOLDINE now looks the only other contender who may be able to put up a challenge, depending on how he takes to his 2nd chasing season.
I for one did not think Denman would ever be the same again; I am quite happy to be wrong!
Bring on the re-match
Denman is top class, of that there is little doubt, but people seem to be confusing a story of achievement with a stunningly crafted fairy-tale. If there has ever been a horse built to carry weight it’s Denman and handicaps are pronounced to be racing’s levellers; so what is remarkable, from a form perspective, of defying one’s mark?
Today was a wonderful advert for racing and a worthy reward for the dedication and diligence of connections (though I could have survived without having to suffer Harry Findlay), but we’re in danger of getting a little too carried away by a performance which people are appraising with their hearts, rather than their heads.
There is an equal danger in viewing the performance too parsimoniously, is there not MG?
Handicaps are the great leveller, it is true, but imo this was not simply a case of Denman franking a mark of 174. My initial thoughts are that Barbers Shop is the horse to rate the race through, and I’d have him running to a mark in the low-160’s, with Denman in the thick-end of the mid-180’s.
Denman is top class, of that there is little doubt, but people seem to be confusing a story of achievement with a stunningly crafted fairy-tale. If there has ever been a horse built to carry weight it’s Denman and handicaps are pronounced to be racing’s levellers; so what is remarkable, from a form perspective, of defying one’s mark?
If Kauto Star wins the King George as well as he has done for the last few seasons and is then turned over by Denman at Cheltenham, then I’ll happily review my position (not that my opinion is worth all that much of course). Until then, my judgement is (perhaps not so) reserved.
That is a good point regarding Denman’s ability to carry weight, but even so it doesn’t change the fact that his opponents received weight and they don’t have to be good weight carriers themselves to make that advantage tell.. Bottom line – I am convinced the Denman we saw last season wouldn’t have come close to producing the performance we saw today…
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I agree with Fist; considering the way he was nursed around, and the ground not really helping, Denman’s 09 Gold Cup performance wasn’t far short of his best, and his Aintree run was an aberration caused by circumstances even less in his favour. The very fact that he returned in this race was fair warning that he was over whatever ailed him.
Just my view, but if the real Kauto turns up at Cheltenham (no foregone conclusion – judged on his latest run) there will be very little between them, certainly not enough that the going won’t have a crucial say in the result.Grassy
Rating the race through a non-stayer (Barbers Shop) wouldn’t be the best way of judging the form, imo.
Wtf is a spectic btw?Rating the race through a non-stayer (Barbers Shop) wouldn’t be the best way of judging the form, imo.
Wtf is a spectic btw?I wouldn’t call Barbers Shop a non-stayer. He finished ahead of confirmed stayers My Will, Gone to Lunch (giving 5lbs), Snowy Morning (giving 6lbs) and up besides Niche Market (giving 8lbs).
He maybe paid for trying to go with Denman too soon and he also just might not be as good as first thought.
I certainly would not class him a non-stayer.
I’m not convinced that Barbers Shop was a non-stayer, Reet. He wouldn’t have finished 6l in front of a horse like Gone To Lunch if he hadn’t stayed, and he has only just been chinned on the line by the thorough stayer Niche Market.
Like I say, it’s my initial impression, but I’m reasonably satisfied that I can rate Barber Shop a stayer in the conditions.
Of course, I could be talking utter spectics.
From a pure racing perspective, wasn’t it great to see a truly top-class animal defying lumps of weight. Something you see rarely these days due to the expansion of conditions and graded events.
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I take your point Mr Hopper (and BA), but how far would he have beaten GTL over a couple of furlongs or so less – would that have made BS an even better stayer?
I’ve only watched the race the once, but to my eyes Barbers Shop looked the likeliest winner around 3 out, but was running on fumes afterwards.
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