- This topic has 25 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 5 months ago by
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Posts
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Didn’t chuckle at
Pinza’s
remarks at all.
Where on earth do I slyly insinuate anything?
I had no suspicions whatsoever! In fact, I’d never even thought about the possibilities of backhanders!! But now you have mentioned it ……….
Don’t worry Nor1, Pinza is a master at debating things people didn’t actually say – he’s done it on almost every thread I’ve cared to post on, but is yet to debate something I’ve actually said
Cue a response with x amount of
italic
words twisting everything I’ve just said
- Total Posts 17716
Pinza
wrote
Or is there some sort of suspicion that Henderson was receiving back-handers from Sherwood or Barry Hills for pretending to train these horses? Is there any proof of this? If so, I suggest Nor1 or anyone else in possession of evidence should contact the BHA. It’s time to "put up…", rather than making sly insinuations.
Didn’t chuckle at
Pinza’s
remarks at all. Where on earth do I slyly insinuate anything? I had no suspicions whatsoever! In fact, I’d never even thought about the possibilities of backhanders!! But now you have mentioned it ……….
Thank you for the clarification. I am glad you did not imply anything sly or nasty. You might have noted that I used that good old English institution the question mark,
Nor1
, and was not making a statement or levelling an accusation.
Can you explain, then, what you
were
getting at when you wrote:
"He’s banned for 3 summer months and allowed to race his horses under another trainer’s name."
Because unless you are suggesting that somehow something was shady about this perfectly understandable arrangement (not "his" horses, remember, but removed from his care by their owners) then I do not know why you bothered to include the phrase in your witch-hunter’s indictment at all.
[Take no notice of my dear friend and admirer
OneEye
. He is a well-meaning sort, but his lack of clarity often forces me to question the (sometimes obscure and illogical) meaning of his screeds. Often he only seems to see "through a glass, darkly"
!]
Pinza , you have said the same to me on another thread concerning convicted drug cheat Henderson . You seem to be a serial apologist for this man of dubious character despite your repeated claims that he is not someone you like. You have again brought the term ‘witch hunt’ to the table , a term which I automatically associate with persecution of the innocent ; not an appropriate phrase when referring to criticism of a convicted drug cheat. Class prejudice ? Indeed not very tasteful but unfortunately all too often the first cry of defence when one of the upper class is criticised or accused , equally as distasteful as career criminals claiming investigations into them are simply racism. Henderson is a cheat (proven) and several dubious activities have increased general scepticism concerning his behaviour – that goes with the territory I’m afraid . Conspiracy theories : "the old school tie" is a phrase that we have all heard throughout our lives it is a phrase that I imagine predates all on here and the school in question as I’m sure you are aware is that of Henderson . Eton was indeed the very school that phrase refers to . There are many walks of life where comradeship comes above all else and where members will do whatever they can to assist one another , Freemasons , armed service regiments and old Etonians are just some of these . This is not theory , this is something that has been admitted many times . There’s no such thing as an ex marine for instance . You are no more able to prove Henderson was not leniently treated due to the ‘ old boys network ‘ than anyone else is able to prove otherwise , thus your views are just theories , all be it non conspiracy theories . I strongly suggest you read the transcripts of Hendersons BHA hearing AND those from the RCVS hearing , which are most illuminating . I have received nothing from the BHA re my inquiry as to whether the case would be reopened in the light of the evidence given by Henderson to the RCVS. It would be extremely hard to defend Henderson in any way once you have read those transcripts , in my opinion he comes across as a liar and a habitual cheat . Who could defend his , "well we wouldn’t have used it if we’d known it was a detector" ?????
Pinza
I can explain my totally innocent wording: "He’s banned for 3 summer months and allowed to race his horses under another trainer’s name." Whether you wish to believe is another matter.
apracing
and
360 degrees
highlighted three horses.
I’ll abbreviate: MM; PdB; Car. They were all trained by Mr Henderson, and apart from Car, they began their careers with him. MM ran for Mr Sherwood twice; PdB once for same trainer; Car once for B Hills. All shortly returned back to Mr Henderson.
Are you saying they were trained by these trainers? I thought of it as merely an holiday, assuming they did indeed reside in different quarters. I regarded them as Mr H’s horses, raced for a short period under the name of other trainers, no change ownership, and then returned. I have no problem with that, because the owners obviously wanted to run their horses and could not under Mr H, as he was banned for 3 months.
Regarding your statement"I do not know why you bothered to include the phrase in your witch-hunter’s indictment at all"
I take great umbrage.
Witch-hunt
is a phrase you are very keen on. I suggest you stop and read very carefully what others have written before using it. No way was I suggesting any backhanders etc. I felt, and still do, that Mr H’s punishment was extremely lenient. That is all.
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Pinza
I can explain my totally innocent wording: "He’s banned for 3 summer months and allowed to race his horses under another trainer’s name." Whether you wish to believe is another matter.
apracing
and
360 degrees
highlighted three horses.
[snip]
Are you saying they were trained by these trainers? I thought of it as merely an holiday, assuming they did indeed reside in different quarters. I regarded them as Mr H’s horses, raced for a short period under the name of other trainers, no change ownership, and then returned. I have no problem with that, because the owners obviously wanted to run their horses and could not under Mr H, as he was banned for 3 months.
There is no dispute as to the facts. There is a question over your interpretation and slant on those facts.
Henderson was not (as you put it) "allowed" to race "his horses" during the ban.
Who "allowed" him to race any horses? Nobody did, because he did not race any horses. They were raced by other trainers.
Who says they were "his horses" in any sense? He did not own them, and over that summer he did not train them. Now you are talking about "holidays" for horses who were having anything
but
holidays, but stayed in training throughout the period.
The imputation of your "allowed" is that the BHA somehow turned a blind eye to some breach of the rules. That is nonsense, and your protestations of innocence don’t excuse the slur, on the BHA or indeed the luckless witch himself.
Just because you feel Henderson’s ban was "lenient" doesn’t excuse cheap shots after he’s served his time. Save your "totally innocent" wit until he’s been banned again – should that happen.
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You have again brought the term ‘witch hunt’ to the table
To be accurate, I did no such thing. I picked it up from other writers who were equally fed up of the hail of mud being flung in the man’s direction.
You’ve now (tediously, I feel) repeated most of the mantras again, including the Old Etonian guff; and though your judgement of the fellow is your business, I personally feel it’s time you people moved away from the smouldering stake, got on with your own lives and left Henderson to get on with his.
… As I shall do now. No more from me on this thread, you and the other Hunters will be glad to know.
I most certainly will not be glad to know that you are bailing from this topic Pinza . The evidence from the RCVS hearing is most damning and not in the least bit open to interpretation . That you are unable to admit that you are wrong and would rather no longer post on this topic does you no credit. There is no mud slinging here in Henderson s own words he would not have used banned substances if he’d known they were detectable in testing . The findings of the RCVS were that he had routinely falsified records to hide illegally medicating on race day. No ambiguity there , the man is a drug cheat and the sport needs cleaning up properly.
- Total Posts 17716
I most certainly will not be glad to know that you are bailing from this topic Pinza . The evidence from the RCVS hearing is most damning and not in the least bit open to interpretation . That you are unable to admit that you are wrong and would rather no longer post on this topic does you no credit.
I have to break my word, in order to correct you and answer the little prod aimed in my direction.
(1) I have not disputed the evidence. Henderson was guilty as charged and properly punished by a ban.
(2) I am disputing the notion of posters such as you that this wretched man is therefore (a) to be condemned for every other crime in the book before proven guilty; and (b) fair game for Old Boy Network taunts, simply because he went to Eton and doesn’t litter his speech with glottal stops.
(3) This is not therefore a question of "right" or "wrong", but of good manners against rabble-rousing rudeness.
I don’t suppose you’ll get these distinctions, but I live in hope.
Goodness me
Pinza
you have taught me in my old age to be very careful with what I write. Your play on words is simply amazing.
Mr H received a short ban. He was able to transfer some horses in his care to other trainers for a short period. They then returned.
You write"The imputation of your "allowed" is that the BHA somehow turned a blind eye to some breach of the rules. That is nonsense, and your protestations of innocence don’t excuse the slur, on the BHA or indeed the luckless witch himself".
I assumed, when the BHA gave Mr H such a short ban, they would know what his options were with the horses in his care. This is not turning a blind eye.
With regard to your"the luckless witch himself"
comment, are you referring to Mr H ? Not quite the words I would have used.
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