- This topic has 65 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 5 months ago by
.
- Posts
You’ve only got to read steeplechasings piece about Red Rum to realise how much he cares about the National and it’s future, and for that reason I think anything he says about the race should be given careful consideration, and comments such as ‘losing the plot’ are unfair.
There’s no doubt it was a fine piece and I thoroughly enjoyed reading it but with respect moehat it concerned the National and the past not the future.
steeplechasing was employed by Aintree at the time, do you think he would be employable there now given his current views and surely you must have noticed how much he quotes Animal Aid nevermind the RSPCA.
STEEPLECHASING[/color:3nil74c6] [aka JOE]
I get your point of view, and after watching channel 4 last week after the Becher’s they too mentioned he [Hello Bud] might be too old. Just for argument sake, what upper age limit would you place on the national?
Let’s take this issue away from the one horse, and keep to the general point.
[b:3nil74c6]HOW OLD IS TOO OLD TO RUN IN THE GRAND NATIONAL?[/b:3nil74c6][/color:3nil74c6]
P.S I’m not one of those who think you’re an aminal aid’s mouthpiece, you’re just concerned that the shop window of racing IE The Grand National gives the right image to the general [non racing] public & I understand which is why I repeated my question.[/color:3nil74c6]
Apologies RR, I meant to answer your question in my last post: I’d set an age limit of 12.
Joe
I watched a programme about wrestling last night and, for some reason was thinking about racing as I watched it, especially when I realised that, like wrestling, racing is now no longer being shown by the BBC. I do question my lifelong love of the National these days and was relieved to find that, last Saturday the thrill of seeing horses jump those fences was the same and, for the first time in a long time I found myself at the end of a race screaming for a horse to win and crying when he did. But the race has to evolve and change with the times for it to survive. As I’ve mentioned before, I had no idea about the stakes in the centre of the jumps and was horrified to learn about it. As for Bud running, well, I got the idea that Sam wanted him to be retired; an internet friend on another non racing forum who is very keen on racing is of the same opinion as well. It’s not a case of pandering to the Animal Rights people but not giving them ammunition to fire at us imo.
You’ve only got to read steeplechasings piece about Red Rum to realise how much he cares about the National and it’s future, and for that reason I think anything he says about the race should be given careful consideration, and comments such as ‘losing the plot’ are unfair.
There’s no doubt it was a fine piece and I thoroughly enjoyed reading it but with respect moehat it concerned the National and the past not the future.
steeplechasing was employed by Aintree at the time, do you think he would be employable there now given his current views and surely you must have noticed how much he quotes Animal Aid nevermind the RSPCA.
Eddie, I’ve no doubt whatever the Aintree Exec will be praying the BHA get them out of this Hello Bud wrangle, absolutely none. They have to find a new sponsor after this race and, like it or not, a commercial association with the National is becoming very risky. A dead ‘veteran’, would make it close to impossible to get a big name sponsor.
I quoted AA in my initial post here which, without checking back, is the only time I think I’ve done so direct. Certainly I’ve mentioned their presence before but they are a reality and a substantial threat.
Do you seriously believe I want them to get their way? If so, why wouldn’t I say nothing about my Hello Bud concerns?
AA are becoming increasingly professional. The statement I quoted – and it had to be there for balance in the piece – showed how much their attitude has matured. They are steadily moving away from a BNP type approach to a UKIP one if I can use that analogy, and, through that, beginning to strengthen their credibility.
Apologies RR, I meant to answer your question in my last post: I’d set an age limit of 12.
Joe
And you base that on…?
I can’t find any statistics that show that horses over the age of 12 have a higher risk of fatality than those under age 12.Apologies RR, I meant to answer your question in my last post: I’d set an age limit of 12.
Joe
And you base that on…?
I can’t find any statistics that show that horses over the age of 12 have a higher risk of fatality than those under age 12.I’ve no doubt you are correct. I base it on the perception of the public and the potential it gives AR groups to brand a horse a ‘teenager’. Yes, I know HB ran this year at the age of 14 but at that time he had not won for 18 months, there was very little focus on him. His Becher success puts him in the AR crosshairs.
I’d bet a large sum that after this year’s race, if not before, an upper age limit will be imposed by the BHA. If it is above 12 I’ll be astounded.
However I try it seems I cannot get my point across, I’ve no argument with statistics, safety, experience, suitability or even age per se, – in the eyes of the public, this race is different from any other, and it needs different rules.
However I try it seems I cannot get my point across, I’ve no argument with statistics, safety, experience, suitability or even age per se, – in the eyes of the public, this race is different from any other, and it needs different rules.
So – you have no arguement?
Apologies RR, I meant to answer your question in my last post: I’d set an age limit of 12.
Joe
I remember backing Red Rum in 1977 [his third and historic win] not knowing at that time of his previous course records at Aintree. I was ready to back him again the following year but he was injured while training for the 78 race and never made it to the race, expect to lead the parade. Personally it was 82 and Grittar when I next had a winning bet, but back to Red Rum.
As I got more into racing and learnt that Ginger McCain had intended to run Red Rum not only as a 13 year old, but as a 14 as well and I thought "
WHAT IF
."
What if some tragedy had befallen Red Rum if he had ran as a 13 year old or 14 year old. McCain would go from Hero to Zero, and the horse who saved it in the mid seventies would help to make it less popular.
"Peruvian Chief":1lljizex wrote:
However I try it seems I cannot get my point across, I’ve no argument with statistics, safety, experience, suitability or even age per se, – in the eyes of the public, this race is different from any other, and it needs different rules.
So – you have no arguement?
When it reaches the point that only I understand what I’m talking about then you’re almost certainly right
What if some tragedy had befallen Red Rum if he had ran as a 13 year old or 14 year old. McCain would go from Hero to Zero, and the horse who saved it in the mid seventies would help to make it less popular.
You may as well say what if some tragedy had befallen Red Rum as a 12 or even 11 year old and shouldn’t they not run him just to be on the safe side even at that age.
A nonsensical argument and you say it would the race less popular if something had happened to him, based on what would it make the race less popular?Personally I would have loved to see Red Rum run in it as a 13 year old, you could see when he was parading before the race he wasn’t interested in that and was raring to go in the race itself, on his patch.
As for Hello Bud, he has now been officially retired.
Why is Hello Bud running in the race and becoming a fatality worse than a random 9 yr old running in the race and becoming a fatality?
One can only assume you are via emotion attaching greater value to the life of Hello Bud than a more normalised aged racehorse. Yes, Hello Bud is a fantastic story, but what he has achieved, and the perceptions of that in your view, do not correlate with extra value of it’s life over any other potential entrant in the race.
You would need to prove that Hello Bud’s age would put him at significantly greater risk than horses age 9/10 etc. You haven’t provided any data or evidence to comply with this idea. Secondly, if you did manage to validify this theory, you’d then have to extrapolate that and say Hello Bud (and animals of a certain age) should be banned from racing altogether. If Hello Bud has a potentially higher frequency of injuries/death in the National relative to younger horses, surely one would logically assume that to be the case in normal National hunt races? Thus, should he not have raced in the Becher chase?
Alas, i don’t see you making that argument. Not only does your thesis lack any significant evidence, but it also inherently contradicts itself, and does not take itself far enough. Logically, discussions of horse racing ages need to be applied in the entire framework of races. You’ve simply framed it within the Grand National. Meaning, you likely have an agenda ; an agenda against the National. This is fine. I disagree with that agenda, but i understand it. At least however, have the courage to post that agenda, rather than trying to subtle inject it via a foiled and contradictory post.
Emotions don’t tend to lead to well reasoned thoughts.
All rather academic as he’s been retired now Joe
here is a twistontwitterpic!
https://twitter.com/samtwiston/status/279851338542751744/photo/1
Emotions don’t tend to lead to well reasoned thoughts.
Indeed not, but a lot of people’s responses to a lot of things, *especially* non-racing fans’ responses to the Grand National, *are* emotional gut reactions. Acknowledging that this is the case, as steeplechasing did, does not mean that you agree with it or that you respond that way yourself (at least over the issue being discussed).
And you base that on…?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.