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Hi PR – The team involved with Where Or When displayed lots of confidence. It almost inspired me to select him as the winner! I didn’t though (skipped the race entirely) because of one thing in particular: Juding on last year’s form, Where Or When isn’t going to be at his best until later this season (perhaps late August onwards). Even if he was 100% physically fit (which he wasn’t, although obviously he can’t have been far short because he’d not race otherwise) the horse certainly wasn’t mentally right. Where Or When could win next time out but I really don’t think he’ll be an all round 100% until later this season. Hawk Win unquestionably had a difficult season in 2002. Where Or When didn’t have it easy though did he? The Derby was a very hard race for him as well as Hawk Wing (despite the difference in finishing positions). Seperating them though is simple, Where Or When had a break before a listed win at Goodwood.
Olden Times and the other horses behind him were all below form. It’s unlikely any of them would be good enough to reverse form with Hawk Wing over one-mile. I hold out hope for Where Or When reversing form although I’m not convinced it’ll be in the Queen Anne at Ascot. In fact, if I trained him, the horse would probably not run at Ascot.
It’s not a myth PR, I use a viable line of form (Aramram) to come to the conclusion. But the fact is, I do not know for sure either way. I don’t know that Hawk Wing wouldn’t have romped in if drawn next to Rock Of Gibraltar. I do know that Rock Of Gibraltar would keep battling if Hawk Wing moved up next to him – watching and listening to the commentry of those two in duel would be thrilling. Unfortunately, that’s not gonna happen.
Yes, I’d rate Hawk Wing in the mid 130’s (and that is exceptional) but I would not trust the rating. It’s weird that Dominic Gardner-Hill (the Official Handicapper who rated Hawk Wing) considered that the 11-lengths Hawk Wing won by shouldn’t be considered a "full" 11-lengths. He didn’t considered the winning distance as being worth 18lbs rather than about 20lbs. Oddly, he regards the distance between first and second as being worth 8-9 lengths.
Aidan, I don’t know if Hawk Wing was 100% fit. I apologise – compared to Where Or When though (from my own judgement) he was a fitter horse. Hawk Wing’s last furlong time was quite slow – maybe that was marginally down to fitness. I do think it was more to do with him using most of his energy in the middle of the race and tiring late on.
WHAT A DIFFERENCE A RACE MAKES EH?
Compare this thread to the new Hawk Wing thread, some people just can’t make up their minds! :biggrin:
WOW! Ian, you took your time to respond :biggrin: , it appears you were thinking along the lines of Hawk Wing was one to be wary of and thats up to you but then you seemingly admited you "may" have been wrong with the "humble pie" bit…….now you’re back on the "get Hawk Wing bandwagon" it’s either one or the other……I’ll take it as you posted above………I was only showing what a difference a race can make and what people in general can say when things change! ;)
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