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The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

Hardwicke 2009

Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
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  • #11803
    tenbob
    Member
    • Total Posts 156

    my points system

    140 campanologist
    135 bronze cannon
    134 doctor freemantle
    131 barshiba
    128 dansant
    122 enroller
    120 steele tango
    119 illustrious blue
    118 tajaaweed

    will back campanologist

    #235238
    MDeering
    Member
    • Total Posts 1688

    Wouldn’t mind witnessing another Doyen!

    Flying Cloud proved to me that if Godolphin can select the right race for the right horse, he/she can defy the erratic stable form/chronic form slumps and win!

    That said, I’m considering Campanologist after a sound first-up effort in a hot Brigadier Gerard. A confident ride set at a steady gallop could see Doctor Fremantle working very hard to chase him home.

    #235260
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Godolphin horse just ran a cracker in the last race so they are not all wrong. Campanologist beat Conduit and Dr Freemantle wouldn’t blow wind up his backside.

    On that alone you would have to think he could beat SMS’s but the big man is very tough to beat here and his horses are flying.

    He also finished 3 lengths behind Conduit at Sandown and would be most likely needing the race and short of his best distance.

    Just about everything points to Camanologist here but Dr Freemantle missed the Corantion Cup to go for this which adds even more confusion.

    Anyone got a coin! Heads or tails?

    I have to sleep on this one and choose later

    #235265
    MDeering
    Member
    • Total Posts 1688

    Doctor Fremantle beats Walter Swinburn’s Staying On by a short head on seasonal debut (good-to-firm).

    That was Staying On’s second start this season. His third start was the Brigadier Gerard, and he beat Campanologist by a length that day (good).

    That BG form, however, is working out brilliantly. Perks ran a solid race in the Wolferton and the BG third Stotsfold won the Group 3 La Coupe yesterday at Longchamp.

    11/8 vs. 10/3 with VCbet.

    #235321
    clivexx
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2215

    Yes MDeering. Does revolve around those form lines for me. But it was Campanologists first race for a while too and he probably does need further too. Tricky….

    #235328
    Zarkava
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4691

    I was planning a large bet on the Doctor but given Godolphin’s sudden turnaround and the apparent insistence of this horse not to be ruined by then (also taking into account that Moore seems incapable of winning Group 1s and 2s), I think I’ll just watch and save my money for Cannonball EW.

    #235348
    shabby
    Member
    • Total Posts 638

    Isn’t Bronze Cannon a bit overpriced at 7/1?, it is hardly a G2 creaking with depth and nor is the favourite a superstar. Casual Conquest hardly let down the form from Guineas day and the Gosden stable is showing some signs of its better horses being back on track.

    #235351
    Our Vic
    Member
    • Total Posts 99

    3.05 Royal Ascot
    Hardwicke Stakes
    2 pts win Doctor Freemantle

    Bronze Cannon: Could not get in a blow from off the pace when only seventh of nine in the King Edward VII Stakes over C&D 12 months ago, having previously looked one to follow) after Doctor Freemantle (a horse whom he had beaten off level weight in a handicap) ; Was below par on AW for the rest of the season , before enjoying the return to this trip when landing Jockey Club Stakes at Newmarket last month, although form of that steadily run three-runner affair not the easiest to assess, especially with odds-on favourite looking unhappy on the ground and running well below par; Has to give weight all round today to what look like better rivals on paper.

    Campanologist: Developed into high-class performer on quick ground last year, recording biggest success when allowed to dictate in King Edward VII Stakes over C&D, with Group 1 winning Conduit in behind (got going way too late and too wide); Proved that to be no fluke when 2nd to Pipedramer in York Stakes next; left impression would come on for the run when fading late in Brigadier Gerard Stakes on return last month but should be no excuses here in race he may be able to dominate, with no real pace horses; Likely to go close but through line with Staying On, may have a bit to find with Doctor Freemantle.

    Dansant: Dual winner on quick turf but established himself as top performer on Polytrack and was winning his sixth Listed race on that surface at Kempton in March; Pick of his turf form needs improving on, but wouldn’t count out.

    Doctor Freemantle: High-class performer over this trip last year when fourth in the Derby after winning the Chester Vase, before then coming a good 4th in the GP De Paris, ending season on a low note due to inability to stay in St Ledger, fading into 8th; Just got away with drop back to 1m2f when making successful return at Chester last month (his second win there) and sure to make bold bid back over optimum trip here, having handy line through Campanologist through Staying On, whom he beat and head Campanologist a good length behind, however expect it to be close between the 2.

    Enroller: Done all his winning at this trip, taking step forward when making successful reappearance in Group 3 at Newbury in April; Form of that race working out well, but need to prove he’s a fast ground horse here.
    Illustrious Blue; Consistent, but even on pick of efforts in his career, when not disgraced when third in 1m4f Listed race at his beloved Goodwood a fortnight ago, has more to prove than most in this field.

    Steele Tango: Decent showing in Group company this spring without suggesting he is up to winning a race like this and did not truly see out this trip on first try when third to impressive Duncan over C&D last month; Expect Campanologist to improve past him, and he does look up against it on form.

    Tajaaweed: Lightly raced and not gone on as expected since making winning return in Dee Stakes last season, stamina seeming to fail him only try at 1m4f when eighth in the Derby; On basis of that one could expect similar problem to arise; Only start this season when fading in Prix Ganay, and has questions to answer.

    Barshiba: Decent record at 1m on this track but consistency not her strong point, well below her best when securing minor honours in Group races with no strength in depth this spring and stamina for this trip has to be proved too (stays 1m2f); As said above, similar problem could occur here, and on basis of this, form doesn’t look good enough.

    VERDICT: Campanologist has proved popular and should go close here with a seasonal run under his belt. However, stronger from claims are boasted by DOCTOR FREEMANTLE, who just got away with a drop back to 1m2f last time and upped back in trip, can take this. His trainer’s other contender’ Tajaaweed, looks to have questions to answer about stamina, the same going for Steele Tango and Basrshiba. Illustrious Blue just doesn’t look classy enough, and Bronze Cannon had the Jockey Club Stakes fall into his lap and has more to do under a penalty.

    That’s what I think of the race, any thoughts?

    #235413
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    After a good nights sleep it was straight into the form book.

    This does have he look of a two horse race between Dr Freemantle and Campanologist.

    I have come to the conclusion the latter may not be up to this.

    He may well have beat Conduit but he wasn’t the same horse back then he is now. Apart from that if Conduit had’nt got a hefty bump he would most likely have beat him.

    Twice last year Campanolgist had his limitations exposed by Pipedreamer
    and I think everyone woud agree he falls short of top class.

    Godolphin horses can run one way or another right now and it’s an added risk I’m not prepared to take.

    Dr Freemantle on the other hand may be improving. SMS set him a pretty tough task on his first outing and I doubt if he was fully would up.

    He had won at Chester before but this time it was 2f short of his best trip.
    Despite that he won very well and I think over this trip and course he will prove way too much for Camapanologist or any of the others to handle.

    Sir Miachael Stoute doesn’t get it wrong too often and there are no doubt about his horses well being.

    I really think he’s a good thing today and unlike my pal Zarkava I am not savig my money for Cannonball :wink:

    Major bet

    Dr Feemantle 13/8

    #235456
    Cav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4825

    Illustrious Blue – Goodwood specialist, exposed, never won above listed

    Steele Tango – Well beaten here in May over course and distance but Duncan has run well in The Derby since, place claims at a price.

    Barshiba – 0-14 in Group races, say no more

    Enroller – Looks more of a soft ground Cup horse and very one paced

    Tajaweed – Suspect stayer, you’d worry about fast ground for such a big horse

    Dansant – Improving, versatile, maybe just a lacking a little bit of class at this level on this surface, stamina not a problem, the most interesting of the outsiders and place claims for sure at 1.8/1

    Bronze Cannon – Well beaten in this last year, stamina doubts, his edging left over the same trip in a 3 runner race at Newmarket does not allay those concerns.

    Doctor Freemantle – Very short for a one paced horse whose 2 biggest wins have come in Group 3’s at Chester. Races a bit keenly for a stamina track like Ascot. Pass.

    Campanologist – Has the best form in the race, ran well in his prep for this at Sandown, track, trip and going in his favour and no front runners to take him on so should be able to bowl along at the head of affairs.

    Campanologist to win 2.8/1 on BF.

    #235479
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Isn’t Bronze Cannon a bit overpriced at 7/1?, it is hardly a G2 creaking with depth and nor is the favourite a superstar. Casual Conquest hardly let down the form from Guineas day and the Gosden stable is showing some signs of its better horses being back on track.

    Wouldn’t his win over Casual Conquest be no more than another 3 horse race fluke?

    #235528
    shabby
    Member
    • Total Posts 638

    It would appear not, Fist

    #235530
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Took the words right out of my mouth :lol: nice one.

    That was some performance they have pulled miles ahead of the rest.

    #235533
    Cav
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4825

    Good call Shabby, thought Frankie had that one turning in.

    #235534
    Ian
    Member
    • Total Posts 1415

    Thought Frankie went a bit too early on Campanologist. Think he may have won if he’d delayed his run a little bit longer.

    #235626
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Wouldn’t go overboard about the form, myself.
    Campanologist has already been put in his place twice by Pipedreamer (Gp 2, at best) and beat Conduit when the latter was still learning his job.
    Jimmy Fortune confirmed that he wasn’t over-excited either, judged by the cautious reply he gave when asked about the King George by the effusive (and ever-dafter) Richi Persad.

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