- This topic has 20 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 9 months ago by
.
- Posts
Michael Phelps has started this argument with his exploits in the pool over in Beijing
Excellent article here[/url:19g11tdh] from the NY Times
For my money, I would have to say Carl Lewis. He also made the USA team for Moscow 1980 before the Americans decided to boycott.
On a lighter note, I love this quote from Phelps, who seems a genuinely likeable guy
“I got 80 text messages today. One of my friends said to me, ‘Dude, how many times a day do I have to see your ugly face?'”
Good debate David.
I had this conversation with my mates yesterday and dismissed Phelps as the greatest ever olympian quite easily. Nothing to do with him, like you say he seems a lovely chap, but more to do with the amount of options available to him to win gold.
If you’re a heavyweight boxer, you only have one gold medal to go for, if you’re a marathon runner, you only have one gold medal to go for etc. However, if you’re a swimmer you get lots of disciplines availale to you and therefore lots of gold medals to go for.
I know there are different kinds of events, like freestyle, butterfly, breaststroke, backstroke etc, but within each event you still have many options. It’s not an exact science, but generally if you’re good enough to win the 200m freestyle you will probably be good enough to win the 100m or 400m.
I appreciate Phelps is in a different league and still has to go out and win (which he does), but having the chance to win eight gold medals within a week, compared to someone like Sir Steve Redgave who won his 5 gold medals over 16 years, seems a bit bizarre to me.
Statistically Phelps is the greatest olympian of all time, but despite what he has achieved (for which I have massive respect and admiration) I would have no hesitation in putting up someone like Redgrave up there with the all time best, along with your own choice Carl Lewis.
Mike
These two do it for me
Fantastic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zjCc_VyxM4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRnztSjUB2U
Sport at its best
Mark Spitz and Phelps I’d discount for the reasons outlined above (multiple opportunities of winning medals for doing, essentially, the same thing). Not decrying their achievements, which were massive, but multiple medal winners are commonplace in swimming.
Paavo Nurmi – the original Flying Finn, must be considered, nine golds to his name in athletics. However he benfitted in an uncompetitive era and also from the fact that in his day (the 19920’s) there were multiple opportunities in distance running. For example in the 1924 Olympics he won three golds at 5,000 metres (track, cross country and team cross country). Nevertheless he must rank very highly.
You’d have to have Redgrave in any short list but I’d have Carl Lewis above him and he’d be my overall champion.
Redgrave’s successes, inspiring as they were, were team based and in a less competitive sport than the ultra-competitive world of track sprinting and long jumping.
As for the greatest ever Olympic moment, how about this –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5gR0g8lHIs
Unforgettable and a still shot of the event adorns my study wall to this day.
Doesn’t have the masses of medals, but Michael Johnson would be the one for me. Completely untouchable in his own event, he turns his hand to the 200m and does something no one else has ever done. Probably the most gifted athlete I’ve ever seen.
Friggo I’m with you on Michael Johnson awesome athlete. Two British faves of mine would be Daley Thompson and Lingford Christie.
Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
Seb Coe was the most talented runner i have seen. Pure poetry in motion. Nice bloke too..lived near me for a while
But Redgrave was awesome. In THAT sport too. Possibly the most frightening training regime of all
I fail to see how anything other than blind British patriotism can place Seb Coe ahead of Hicham El Guerrouj in terms of middle distance talent and achievement – 2 Olympic Golds (should have been 3 but for falling in the 1996 1,500m) and 4 World Titles. Coe only ever managed one European Gold, having to settle for 2 silvers and a bronze in his other forays.
Did I miss the part where El Guerrouj held the 800m world record for nigh on twenty years? And dream up Coe’s two Olympic Golds over 1500m?
Of course I am aware of Coe’s brace of Olympic medals. However, both Moscow and LA were subject to tit for tat boycott’s so the strength in depth has to be questionable.
Does a lack of "strength in depth" devalue a Gold medal? Surely strength in the division full stop is all that is important. Besides, the argument is irrelevant as the Americans were there in ’84 and the Soviets in ’80- neither made a blind bit of difference to the middle distance ranks at the top end.
The holding of a World Record for such a long period is hardly on its own a sign of greatness. Wilson Kipketer has held the 800m record since 1997 – that does not automatically make him a great?
Yes, IMO. Athletes are becoming faster, stronger, better-funded and better physically and mentally prepared all the time. If you can be effectively a decade or more ahead of your time by holding a world record for so long then you deserve an awful lot of credit. If you saw the madness after Usain Bolt’s win today with him beating Michael Johnson’s long-standing 200m record, you will see the significance that this holds with people.
In purely Olympic terms, Coe is no better than Edwin Flack, James Lightbody, Melvin Sheppard, Albert Hill, Douglas Lowe, and Malvin Whitfield – all dual winners at middle distance events.
… And therefore in "purely Olympic terms" neither is El Guerrouj, being a dual champion himself?
A baffling statement, that one.
However, both Moscow and LA were subject to tit for tat boycott’s so the strength in depth has to be questionable
Bullshit. all the best runners in both events were there. The USA and eastern block countries had no competitor of significance
El Guerrouj comfortably has the better record than Coe in terms of Gold Medals accumulated in truly competitive world events
Coe has two gold and two silver from the olympics. El Guerrouj has two gold one silver. EG has more world championships but in Coes time they were only held once every four years, not alternate years and due to illness, i think Coe only ever competed in one.
Larissa Latynina–The Ukrainian gymnast, competing for the Soviet Union, won 18 medals, the most of anyone, in three Olympics, 1956, ’60 and ’64. Latynina was the all-around champion in ’56 and ’60. Most remarkable, however, was her performance in the ’58 world championships, when she won five gold medals while pregnant. Phelps is never going to be able to duplicate that.
Nurmi must be considered among the true greats also.
Michael Johnson and Carl Lewis were magnificent athletes. But for sheer mind blowing brilliance, Usain Bolt is the daddy, in my opinion. Smashing two world records in the 100 & 200 metres whilst sauntering to victory puts him at the very top, in my opinion.. If he stays fit and healthy he can win the double again in London.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
i know its very hard to get away from Phelps and at a push he would also be my shot but maybe mohammed Ali
You think of an Olympian and one would have to separate that particular individual from an athlete per se.
In that case – hard to go past Jesse Owens.
However, how about Usain Bolt? Michael Phelps completed something phenomenal by winning the eight gold but for visual marvels, Bolt is in a league of his own.
Jesse Owens for me too, for him to achieve what he did in Germany in 1936(four gold medals) and coming from the background he did in the states, just to get on the US Olympic team was an amazing feat.
Firefox –
Coe was a world record holder which, I would guess, entitles him to be considered the VERY best in world terms. Doesn’t make him the greatest Olympic athlete ever, granted, but cetainly top of the tree at those distances for a time.Another name that could be thrown into the ring, perhaps forgotten by many, is that of Al Oerter(1936-2007). He won the Olympic discus competition four consecutive times from 1956 to 1968, setting a new Olympic record on each occasion.
There are two others that have won the same Olympic event four times, Carl Lewis (long jump) and Paul Elvstrom (sailing).
Rob
The great Cuban heavyweight Teofilio Stevenson is another who deserves consideration. Three golds in consecutive games (the previous two recipients being Joe Frazier and George Foreman, just in case you thought it was an easy task).
His fellow countryman Felix Savon repeated the feat between 1992 and 2000 but he lacked the aura of Stevenson for me.
Stevenson was certainly a greater olympic boxer than Ali, who won the Light Heavyweight crown rather than the heavyweight division he was to dominate as a pro.
Some great boxers have competed as amateurs though. In addition to Ali, Stevenson, Savon, Frazier and Foreman we’ve also had Laszlo Papp, Floyd Patterson, Michael Spinks, Leon Spinks, Lennox Lewis (who beat Riddick Bowe in the final), Sugar Ray Leonard, Oscar de la Hoya and the great Audley Harrison of course.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.