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What do you think is the greatest ever horse to run other both the flat and over jumps. We have seen plenty of good horses run in both codes. The likes of Sea Piegeon, Midnight Legend, Alderbrook. Blythe Knight. Grey Shot and Top Cees were very good in both codes to name just a few. What was your favorite. Also I am a big fan of staying horses both stayers on the flat and also your 3 mile hurdlers. I would love to see the same horse win the Ascot Gold Cup and World Hurdle in my lifetime. Whats the chances of that happening?
Well Blythe Knight is the most recent one.
Some of my faves include Top Cees,Shes Our Mare,Celestial Choir to get the ball rolling.
Well, how does this sound for an all round performer? (I’ve not recorded all his wins/performances):
2 year old:
2nd Grand Criterium Maisons Laffitte 6f (Group 2 Flat)3 year old:
1st Grosser Preis von Berlin, Hoppegarten 6 1/2f (Group 3 Flat)
(Broke course record, which still stands today)4 year old:
2nd Holsten Trophy, Hamburg 6f (Group 3 Flat)
1st Hauptjagdrennen der Vierjaehrigen, Baden-Baden, 2m 2f (Listed Steeplechase)6 year old:
1st Schickle Cup, Dortmund 1m 1f (All Weather track)
1st Preis vom Rhein, Baden-Baden 2m 2f (Steeplechase)
1st Preis der Horstmann GmbH, Bad Harzburg 2m 2f (Hurdle)
1st Richard-Grimminger-Preis, Mannheim 2m (Steeplechase)7 year old:
1st Schmidt-Pauli-Jagdrennen, Baden-Baden 2m 2f (Steeplechase)
1st Preis vom Daglfinger Blumenhof, Munich 6 1/2f (Flat)8 year old:
2nd Grand Prix GP Christoffel Bau Trophy, St.Moritz 1m (Listed Flat, Frozen lake)
1st Richard-Grimminger-Preis, Mannheim 2m (Steeplechase)
3rd Bet365.com Celebration Chase, Sandown Park 2m (Grade 2 Steeplechase)I’m sure you’ve guessed who he is by now. Flat, hurdles, fences, grass, all weather, frozen lake – they’re all the same to him! The great one – FIEPES SHUFFLE!!
And hopefully, Flipper (as he’s known in the stables) will add to this tomorrow when he runs in a 50,000 Euro steeplechase at Auteuil. I can tell you, if he wins, I’ll be heard all round Paris!
There’s just one issue – I’ll actually be in Leicester!!!!!
Darren – AngloGerman
Didn’t realise quite how impressive Fiepe’s Shuffle’s CV was (even better if hedn’s capsized in the AGFA Hurdle) but Sea Pigeon is in a league of his own when it comes to dual purpose horses. A proper horse.
Didn’t realise quite how impressive Fiepe’s Shuffle’s CV was (even better if hedn’s capsized in the AGFA Hurdle) but Sea Pigeon is in a league of his own when it comes to dual purpose horses. A proper horse.
Are you saying Fiepes isn’t a proper horse??
Joknig apart though, if I remember correctly, Sea Pigeon won the Ebor AND the Champion Hurdle (maybe even in the same season?). Thing is with Sea Pigeon, his best flat performances were generally at longer distances, whereas Fiepes runs in a sprint one day, a steeplechase the next, a 1 mile race on the snow the next then off to a hurdle race!
Sure, I think Sea Pigeon was a class apart, but for sheer versatility and adapability, you would be hard pressed to beat Fiepes.
Darren – AngloGerman
Royal Gait
Won a group one disqualified on the flat and a champion hurdle over hurdles in a limited career, maybe not the greatest but a good old stick at the very least.
Sea Pigeon and Royal Gait are good examples, but what about Brown Jack, winner of the Champion Hurdle, 7 wins at Royal Ascot, plus the Goodwood, Doncaster and Chester Cups and the Ebor Handicap?
Also Le Paillon, third in the Champion Hurdle in 1947, then won the Arc later the same year.
Blythe Knight is mine. I surpose as its the latest good dual purpose horse. I wonder if they will take it to cheltenham festival again. The trainer did’nt really say in the interview after Blythe Knights win at Epsom.
Brown Jack is a legend in his own right but I ahve never seen him run even on film. He has however a fantastic reocrd.
Anglo German sprung one on me I never knew the horse he refers to exisited but he sounds like a horse and a half. I will be scouring the net after this post.
During my time, like, Rory Sea Pigeon stands out.
Knowing John Quinn he would be amused at anyone comparing or prefering Blythe Knight to Sea Pigeon who just did it time and time again.
Blythe Knight is a lovely horse but a Sea Pigeon he is not and he will probaly never do enough to be regarded as great.
Sea Pigeon not only won the Champion Hurdle twice, he also won the Scottish Champion Hurdle, the Fighting Fifth twice and severl other good hurdle races. On the flat he won 2 Chester Cups the 1979 Ebor, and the Northumberland Plate in total he won over 20 races which is amazing that he stayed sound all that time. The old fellow was as tough as nails and very rarely disappointed his connections.
If you asked Jonjo who his best pal in the world was he would tell you Sea Pigeon.
Sea Pigeon may not have been as good a flat horse as some dual purpose horses but he did it for so long and so consistantly he stands out head and shoulders above anything I have seen.
Arkle "H" I’m with you on that one had they ran him in some long distance races on the flat he would probably have won moore than a few.
I’d be interested to know, exactly how many horses have won over hurdles, fences and on the flat (say last 50 yrs). Any ideas?
John Quinn said after Blythe Knight’s recent Epsom victory:
"He loves it here and that’s the end of jump racing for him. We were quite hopeful when he finished second to Katchit in the Kingwell Hurdle at Wincanton but he ran in the soft at Cheltenham and ran no sort of race. He prefers running on the Flat and we were never going to trudge him around in handicap hurdle company. It just shows you what a stiff task he had trying to give Smokey Oakey (recent winner of Brigadier Gerard Stakes) 15lb in the Lincoln and today was a very good performance for an eight-year-old. There is nothing for him at Ascot, he doesn’t really like it there anyway, and we will probably head for a Group race in Germany, one in Ireland and he ran a good race in a Group 2 at Longchamp in October and he’ll probably go there again."
Pity really as he’ll probably only have one more chance at the Champion Hurdle at his age.
I wonder if Ask will ever be sent over timber? I know the horse was bought for hurdling, but his impressive flat form seems to have curtailed any potential jumps career. Ask would probably be the best flat horse to jump for many a year.
Arkle "H" I’m with you on that one had they ran him in some long distance races on the flat he would probably have won moore than a few.
I confess it was a bit tongue in cheek mentioning Arkle, FoF – but he did win the 1m 6f Donoughmore Plate at Navan, carrying 9st 6lbs. Does that count ?
I agree about Sea Pigeon. Apart from the races already mentioned, the son of Sea Bird also ran seventh in the 1973 Derby, behind Morston. He was a fantastic little horse.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Don’t like going against Sea Pigeon, but, being a bit pedantic – he never won a Pattern race on the Flat.
Wasn’t Royal Gait Europe’s Champion Stayer? Though we don’t really know how good he was over Hurdles.
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