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Quote: from jonny1ph on 10:03 pm on Mar. 3, 2007[br]What is frustrating is that BM never got the chance to prove how good he was. <br>
I see this one’s being trotted out again.
Best Mate has plenty of form in the book which tells us how good he was.
Agree totally with Aidan
Whilst understandable for some fragile horses (see you then ..good example) gearing a whole season around peaking for one race is really setting yourself up to being a hostage to fortune. I found it strange that they didnt go frther to find better ground and the KGV omission was an odd one
I am a bit tired of small field excuse ridden so called grade ones where all the talk is of the "big day". Doesnt do the sport any favours at all
Nichols believes that a horse can be campaigned aggresively up to xmas an then brought back to a further peak later in the season
and why not?
Commisration to Mouse though
Exactly what we were discussing beofre this news came out clivex – with both of us questioning war of attrition and newmills campaign – if its all about the big day and then you can’t go you have wasted a season.
Listening to State Of Plays trainer on ATR just highlights it for me….his campaign has been a joke.
<br>I’m all for the aggressive campaigning of these top class chasers but surely the fact that the last 2 Gold Cup winners never made it back to Cheltenham to defend their crowns underlines what a great training performance it was by Henrietta Knight.
It was a shame that BM never ran on good ground again after his second GC win as that might have allowed him to produce a similar performance.
Would love to have seen him run in the last 2 renewals of the GC as everything was perfect on those occasions and the fields were no stronger than in the 3 that he won.<br>
Quote: from stevedvg on 9:01 am on Mar. 4, 2007[br]
doesn’t this really highlight what happens when connections wrap a star horse in cotton wool?
Connections of the horse have clearly built WOA’s season around the Gold Cup, running him in races on the wrong kind of ground – not seeking out big races on the other side of the pond on better ground (and not having him fit enough to win any of the races he has run in so far this season), with the intention of having him spot-on for Friday 16th March.
Mouse Morris has clearly been studying at the ‘Henrietta Knight School of Training’.
This was what I was thinking.
I remember similar comments when it was announced that Best Mate would miss the Gold Cup 2 years ago.
While I don’t think that WoA is necessarily a horse that would take a lot of races in a season, there seems to have been a
"we’ll just run him in the heavy ground in Ireland because there’s only one race we care about"
attitude about his campaign and, IMO, they would have been better bringing him to England for the likes of the King George.
Steve <br>
SURELY THE HORSE HAD A PROPER CAMPAIGN AND HE ONLY SWERVED ONE RACE IN THE IRISH GOLD CUP BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO GET HIM FRESH. HE HAD UP TO THAT POINT BEING RUNNING WITH GREAT CREDIT AGAINST OTHER VERY GOOD HORSES AND HE WAS CLEARLY FIT. WOA DOES ALSO HANDLE SOFT GROUND EVEN IF HE MIGHT BE MORE EFFECTIVE ON GOOD.
I ALSO FEEL THAT PEOPLE DONT REALISE THAT MANY TRAINERS FEAR THE EFFECTS OF TRAVEL ON A HORSES SEASONAL PROSPECTS MORE THAN GROUND.
SHL
Load of tosh, if a trainer states categorically and his form proves it, that a horse is a good ground horse why would you run him repeatedly on heavy going? Alner took the listener to Ireland because he knew his charge was a much better horse on that service. He’s got himself and Lexus and second in the Henessy in the process. What’s WOA got? It’s not even as though they’ve really wrapped him up..
Quote: from Aragorn on 11:02 am on Mar. 5, 2007[br]Load of tosh, if a trainer states categorically and his form proves it, that a horse is a good ground horse why would you run him repeatedly on heavy going? Alner took the listener to Ireland because he knew his charge was a much better horse on that service. He’s got himself and Lexus and second in the Henessy in the process. What’s WOA got? It’s not even as though they’ve really wrapped him up..
Well two things…FIrsty WOA might be better on good ground but he does handle soft and he did run some nice races and picked up prize money. Its hardly as if he did a BJK or Desert Quest on it. It was the proper thing and good for racing that he ran these races this season.
Secondly…tosh or not, its a strong belief that many trainers have that the ordeal of travelling horses over and back takes an edge off many of them.
Im not entirely sure what point your actually trying to make to be honest but its perhaps what races should have went for?? The King George was hardly there for the taking. Either way, seems he got a pretty honest good campaign similar to last year and this injury is just one of those things.
SHL
Harry,
WOA obviously doesn’t mind travelling and would have gotten better ground over here so why not run him here? His cheltenham form’s pretty good so you would have thought they might have sent him over for one of the festival trials or the open meeting. Instead they run him on unsuitable ground repeatedly. Surely that would take the edge off him just as much? Maybe dent his confidence or sour him. Either way they’ve won half the money they probably should have done with him this season and have lost out due to injury.
SHL
WOA DOES ALSO HANDLE SOFT GROUND EVEN IF HE MIGHT BE MORE EFFECTIVE ON GOOD.
There’s a big difference between soft and the sort of heavy ground he struggled through in his last couple of races.
From the RP report on the Lexus:
"his jockey Conor O’Dwyer reported that he hated the ground"
its a strong belief that many trainers have that the ordeal of travelling horses over and back takes an edge off many of them.
If he came over for the KG, he would have had 10 weeks to recover for the GC (about twice as long as he got after the GC last year). So, I don’t really see that as an issue.
Since coming out of novice company, his record in G1 chases is:
Gd: 1,1<br>Y/Soft: 2, 2<br>Soft/Heavy: 5, 2, 3
I’m going to suggest there’s a pattern in there.
While it would have been difficult to find good ground for him this season, connections could have (and should have) found him better ground.
Steve
Quote: from stevedvg on 4:46 pm on Mar. 5, 2007[br]SHL
WOA DOES ALSO HANDLE SOFT GROUND EVEN IF HE MIGHT BE MORE EFFECTIVE ON GOOD.
There’s a big difference between soft and the sort of heavy ground he struggled through in his last couple of races.
From the RP report on the Lexus:
"his jockey Conor O’Dwyer reported that he hated the ground"
its a strong belief that many trainers have that the ordeal of travelling horses over and back takes an edge off many of them.
If he came over for the KG, he would have had 10 weeks to recover for the GC (about twice as long as he got after the GC last year). So, I don’t really see that as an issue.
Since coming out of novice company, his record in G1 chases is:
Gd: 1,1<br>Y/Soft: 2, 2<br>Soft/Heavy: 5, 2, 3
I’m going to suggest there’s a pattern in there.
While it would have been difficult to find good ground for him this season, connections could have (and should have) found him better ground.
Steve
Name the obvious top class races that took place on this better ground. We can take the King George……..but remember thats a tight track and Kauto Star was there so we shouldnt assume it was set up for him. For me the connnections went for the obvious enough targets at the time.
SHL
Name the obvious top class races that took place on this better ground. ÂÂÂ
The king George, for one.
(which I’ve already mentioned)
We can take the King George
Gee, thanks.
Kauto Star was there so we shouldnt assume it was set up for him
I never said it was "set up for him".
Nor was I talking about "easy/easier" races.
I was talking about giving the horse a meaningful opportunity to run up to his ability.
Steve
(edited for readability
(Edited by stevedvg at 7:49 am on Mar. 6, 2007)
That has to be the best Gold Cup I’ve seen in my life time. The big two were the big two, two fantastic horses.
Ok lost on Exotic Dancer but I’ve no complaints he’s a very, very high class horse but Kauto Star is probably the best chaser a lot of us will ever see.
Fanbloodytastic race.
Well done to those who kept faith with Kauto.
That race will go down in history we’ve just seen real greatness. It took a living legand to beat Exotic Dancer today.
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