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I do wish John Gosden would keep his opinion of Adam Kirby’s ride in the Hardwicke Stakes to himself.
He claims Kirby was deliberately turning his mounts head to the right to keep Dettori boxed in on Eagle Top. Yes, the horse’s head carriage was at times veering to its right, however on as many occasions Dettori’s mount’s head was apparently being turned towards Postponed. Why, in Gosden’s opinion, was Kirby guilty of deliberately moving his mount’s head and yet Dettori was not?
Dettori was hell bent on holding his racing line, one horse’s width off the rail, directly behind Telescope. He did a similar thing in the Prince Of Wales’s stakes only this time he was boxing a rider in. Nine times out of ten a jockey wouold have tucked his mount in behind Snow Sky but Dettori elected to sit one off the rail and forced Kirby three wide all the way around.
To my eyes if Dettori had sat behind the eventual winner he would have got up the inside of Telecsope and been able to launch an attack on Snow Sky. He didn’t and Kirby was perfectly entitled to keep Eagle Top boxed in forcing him to go around horses to make his challenge. I cannot see how Gosden has the audcacity to criticise Kirby given how supporters of The Grey Gatsby must have felt a couple of days earlier when Gosden and Dettori had contributed to that’s horse narrow defeat. Gosden wants to have it both ways.
I also wonder is there a sub-plot here? Gosden’s “boy” Buick got the Godolphin job when many, myself included, thought Kirby had ridden out of his skin throughout the winter. In my opinon Kirby is more tactically astute, and far stronger than Buick. However I am sure Gosden had a lot of say in persuading Godolphin to side with Buick, but as 2015 has gone on Buick’s record with Charlie Appleby has stalled somewhat with a strike rate of only 26% compared with Kirby’s of 47%.
Gosden appeared desperate to paint Kirby as merely an all-weather jockey however he proves himself on a daily basis to be a highly reliable jockey who rarely gets it wrong on well backed runners, whereas Buick is very often caught napping in races.
Gosden ought to shut up where Kirby is concerned because punters know Kirby is a VERY good jockey indeed, and deserved to get the Godolphin job.
Indeed, there does seem to be a personal undertone to Gosden’s attack on Kirby. The ‘all-weather jockey’ jibe was particularly catty and out-of-touch with modern British racing. It was even hypocritical given that Gosden supported the all-weather with some well-bred types this winter.
The ride in question was rugged, but didn’t break any rules. If anything, I think most would want to see more of that on the biggest stage, rather than riders obligingly moving aside to let rivals through.
In the same way that jockeys shouldn’t ride other people’s horses (Gosden quote) trainers shouldn’t give instructions on how to ride to other people’s jockeys (Davies quote – about Gosden).
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I’m sure ryan Moore/Aiden obrien were uttering a few sweary words after the gold cup but showed class by not moaning about it. Moore/Obrien were unlucky a few times,sir Isaac Newton for one,but that is racing and you just having accept it and move on. Btw I noticed Jamie spencer had a wee dig on atr so don’t think gosden has many supporters on this matter.
Just to disagree with the consensus.
Ah! The irony of posters on the forum having a moan about a trainer having moan. We would have nothing to talk about if it weren’t for the moaners.
Having justed watched the race through again, I thought Gosden was right in his description of the facts. Here is a snippet of what he said from the Racing Post:
Gosden has made clear that he had no objection to Kirby then holding a racing line up the straight and keeping Dettori trapped, but he repeated and beefed up his criticism of Kirby for what he deemed to be improper tactics in the first stage of the descent to Swinley Bottom.
“If a horse jumps sideways and bumps someone, that’s accidental,” said Gosden. “However, in the early part of the race this rider had the reins short and the horse’s head angled hard right straight into our horse. That’s not clean riding and it doesn’t belong anywhere in British racing, let alone at Royal Ascot on a big day in front of 75,000 people.
“I’m aware what Luca said, and he rather thinks keeping his horse three wide was wrong, but that’s not the point. Postponed’s jockey wanted to be two wide, where we were, behind Telescope. I don’t blame him for wanting to be there, but we happened to have the same plan. Frankie wanted to follow Telescope by going straight from his draw. He had every right to do so. Someone does not have the right to cannon into you and try to push you in.
“This boy did not begin to keep his line from the start. He came across and cannoned into us. That’s unacceptable race-riding in my opinion. That’s what I referred to as not being clean and not being intelligent.
“I have no problem with him keeping us in down the stretch. That’s professional race-riding and jockeyship. I do have a problem with using all-weather winter tactics and intimidating somebody in an attempt to knock them out the way. It’s just not on and it doesn’t look good for British racing. A clash of heels and a horse goes down.
“Some of the young kids see this and think it’s something they can get away with as well. They start to think it’s all right to do. It’s not all right to do.”I thought Gosden was right in his opinion.
Ivanjica said: “He claims Kirby was deliberately turning his mounts head to the right to keep Dettori boxed in on Eagle Top.” That is not what Gosden said, Gosden said that Kirby wanted Dettori’s position and tried to push Dettori off his line.
Ivanjica said: “Why, in Gosden’s opinion, was Kirby guilty of deliberately moving his mount’s head and yet Dettori was not? “ Because Kirby was trying to push Dettori off his line and Dettori was trying to resist being pushed off line. A bit like Putin and Ukraine: I know that is your piece of turf, but I want it – What sort of reprobate are you in trying to defend yourself? See the difference there?
Ivanjica said: “I cannot see how Gosden has the audcacity to criticise Kirby given how supporters of The Grey Gatsby must have felt a couple of days earlier when Gosden and Dettori had contributed to that’s horse narrow defeat. Gosden wants to have it both ways.” Gosden actually said: “”I have no problem with him keeping us in down the stretch. That’s professional race-riding and jockeyship. “
Gosden did not say that Kirby was a bad jockey, just that he did a dumb thing in the race. A bit like football managers (Wenger, Mourino and most others) Cumani has defended his jockey, and good for him in doing so. But I expect he was a bit annoyed that his jockey kept the horse in an unbalanced state for the best part of three furlongs, in a well-monied Group 2 race at Royal Ascot, simply because Dettori got the box seat before he could get there. Not smart on that occasion, I think.
What was Frankie doing to Spencer on Western Hymnn then??? People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones Johnny G
What did Elusive Kate do to Sky lantern?..Gosden is the worst conveyor of accurate information and the best at misinformation.
John Gosden is usually one of the most measured and sensible guys in racing; who could forget the way he handled the death of Rewilding in the King George at Ascot in 2011. He did racing a big favour that day.
On this one there are arguments both ways but IMO he should give it up and move on.
Well said.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Is that the one where, having forever said Kingman doesn’t want the ground too firm, he criticised The Curragh for producing ground he claimed was too soft?
That was a bit of a giggle.
Fab trainer, serial whinger though. =D
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Think Gosden is wrong in the Kirby case, but I’ve got no problem him expressing an opinion about it.
Gosden knows his horses: Can understand why a trainer does not want to see soft ground when their horse shows an action and speed usually associated with those at their best on a sound (anything from firm to good) surface. On the other hand… Kingman underwent ankle surgery as a two year old; so there is also a very good reason why Gosden would NOT want it TOO firm. Obviously running a horse on very firm puts more stress on the ankle. Kingman comes from a family known for similar joint problems.
Value Is EverythingGosden, like all people at the top of their profession, wants everything on his terms – it’s part of what makes him who he is.
Jose Mourinho is no different in football.
I don’t mind such people whinging about every little thing that doesn’t go their way – pro punters are exactly the same on here about getting their bets on – and we live thankfully in a land of free speech.
Doesn’t stop me thinking Gosden, Mourinho et al make clowns of themselves – and display no quality whatsoever – with their more outrageously spurious complaints though. =D
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I just wish guys like gosden and mourinho would show a bit more class instead of always wanting everything their own way. No need for the guff they talk but it seems to be that you have to behave like that to be a winner these days.
Is that the one where, having forever said Kingman doesn’t want the ground too firm, he criticised The Curragh for producing ground he claimed was too soft?
That was a bit of a giggle.
Fab trainer, serial whinger though. =D
Yeah he also said although not in the exact words that no horse should of ran on the course until after Kingman that day.
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