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Unfortunately Jeremy, as Dortmund doesn’t have any obstacles, Germany will be without any jumps racing until Bremen on Good Friday I think. As for Neuss, well, from what I hear, it should be up and running again this time next year at the earliest, and the renovation is costing about 6 million Euros, including what some are saying will be the best grandstand in Germany. Their meetings for this winter have all been shelved.
With no jumps racing in the winter in Germany, you might see some of our horses a bit more in the UK over the coming months. I’ll be discussing plans with Christian on Saturday, but I guess we’ll be doing our usual tour of the smaller Midlands and southern tracks, with a couple of big race days thrown in.
Ludlow here you come, then! Ah well, as long as there is still the quota of Seejagdrennen and other Teutonic oddities later in the season…
You’ll have to forgive my ignorance on this, but I was under the impression that German racing was far from cash-rich at the present moment. What was the business case for redeveloping Neuss just now, then? Is it especially luractive and successful, for all that the racing held there wouldn’t be the classiest?
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Ludlow here you come, then! Ah well, as long as there is still the quota of Seejagdrennen and other Teutonic oddities later in the season…
Well, I’ve promised Christian that I’m off to Bad Harzburg next year, so hopefully I’ll have some nice piccies of the Seejagdrennen there, and after the chase at Krefeld earlier this month, where there was, by German standards, a huge turnout (13), National Hunt racing may finally be on the up.
You’ll have to forgive my ignorance on this, but I was under the impression that German racing was far from cash-rich at the present moment. What was the business case for redeveloping Neuss just now, then? Is it especially luractive and successful, for all that the racing held there wouldn’t be the classiest?
The whole area is getting redeveloped, and the grandstand must be about 50 years old. I think there’s some sort of business park being built in the area as well. Again, I’ll see if I can find any more details on Saturday for you – you never know, there might even be a plan of the developement!
Darren – AngloGerman
________________________________________‘The Hungarian’s going hell for leather’ – Jim McGrath
I’ve got next year’s German major race flat fixtures, but I don’t suppose that is of interest to you Jeremy! Nothing until May, but I will happily post them if anyone wants them.
In yesterday’s "Sport-Welt" (our "Racing Post") there was a provisional calendar with race-meetings in 2009 in Germany.
There are 10 meetings (each Sunday) annonced from January 4th to March 3rd, 2009 – all shall take place at Dortmund on the dirt-track.
Situation with horse-racing here is quite difficult at the moment – everything is possible – a complete falling out of the winter-races is not completely unlikely actually.
Go to Pau!
German sand racing is of a really poor standard!
Theirs zero atmosphere on the track
The racing authorities cannot be trusted to put on a programme!
Its colder in this part of the world
If you really want the German experience go to Baden Baden/Cologne/Dusseldorf/Hamburg during the normal racing season!!
Pau is a really nice experience, other alternatives would be Cagnes sur mer and Mijas in Spain (Fly to Malaga), in Febuary they have the Mijas cup , SKY CRUSADOR from the Recke yard won it last year! I go to most of the winter meeting in Mijas as i take migration for the winter!
Racing in Spain is really improving, the track in Madrid is excellent and the quality of racing good, Seville and San Sebastian are other venues worthy of a visit, Mijas as potential,however,unfortunately for them it fell in the wrong hands (Management), a UK mob who mainly operate in the East bloc (Global tote) are responsible for the tracks failings,staff/prize money/leases where not paid, their was talk of money laundering,tote turnover per race is very low etc,etc!
I would think Spain as a big future, sportsbetting licenses are being issued in certain areas and others will follow,the Spanish are compulsive gamblers thus the maths work!!
Whatever you decide,have a nice time!
Does anyone have to hand the fixture list for Germany during 2009 and could blat it into a post on there, please?
Unfortunately Jeremy, there were no DVR leaflets at Dortmund, so I’ve copied the fixture list from Sport-Welt (as mentioned by Parlo), and here it is (would have been earlier but I’m a bit slow on the old typing I’m afraid!!). Hope there’s no mistakes – I have proof-read it twice, so I think we’re OK:
JANUARY:
Sunday 4th – Dortmund
Sunday 11th – Dortmund
Sunday 18th – Dortmund
Sunday 25th – DortmundFEBRUARY:
Sunday 1st – Dortmund
Sunday 8th – Dortmund
Sunday 15th – Dortmund
Sunday 22nd – DortmundMARCH:
Sunday 1st – Dortmund
Sunday 8th – Dortmund
Sunday 15th – Krefeld
Sunday 22nd – Muelheim
Sunday 29th – Duesseldorf, MannheimAPRIL:
Saturday 4th – Dresden
Sunday 5th – Cologne, Herxheim
Friday 10th – Bremen
Saturday 11th – Leipzig
Sunday 12th – Duesseldorf, Hoppegarten, Sonsbeck
Monday 13th – Cologne, Hannover, Munich, Saarbruecken
Saturday 18th – Halle
Sunday 19th – Krefeld, Zweibruecken
Saturday 25th – Hoppegarten
Sunday 26th – Cologne, MannheimMAY:
Friday 1st – Muelheim, Bremen, Munich, Lepzig
Sunday 3rd – Frankfurt, Duesseldorf, Karlsruhe
Saturday 9th – Krefeld, Hoppegarten
Sunday 10th – Cologne, Hannover
Friday 15th – Bremen
Saturday 16th – Baden-Baden, Dresden
Sunday 17th – Baden-Baden, Gotha
Wednesday 20th – Baden-Baden
Thursday 21st – Baden-Baden, Dortmund, Magdeburg
Saturday 23rd – Baden-Baden
Sunday 24th – Baden-Baden, Halle
Saturday 30th – Leipzig
Sunday 31st – Duesseldorf OR Krefeld, Hoppegarten, SaarbrueckenJUNE:
Monday 1st – Munich, Cologne, Hannover, Walldorf
Saturday 6th – Bremen
Sunday 7th – Duesseldorf OR Krefeld, Hassloch, Rastede
Thursday 11th – Muelheim, Frankfurt, Munich
Friday 12th – Mannheim
Saturday 13th – Dresden, Hannover
Sunday 14th – Cologne, Dresden
Wednesday 17th – Cologne
Saturday 20th – Duesseldorf, Hoppegarten
Sunday 21st – Dortmund, Bremen, Zweibruecken
Saturday 27th – Hamburg, Gotha
Sunday 28th – Hamburg, Munich, Erbach
Tuesday 30th – HamburgJULY:
Wednesday 1st – Hamburg
Friday 3rd – Hamburg
Saturday 4th – Hamburg, Magdeburg
Sunday 5th – Hamburg, Mannheim, Herschberg
Wednesday 8th – Frankfurt
Saturday 11th – Cologne, Leipzig
Sunday 12th – Hannover, Munich, Blieskastel
Thursday 16th – Bad Harzburg
Saturday 18th – Bad Harzburg, Dresden
Sunday 19th – Duesseldorf, Frankfurt, Bad Harzburg, Cuxhaven
Tuesday 21st – Bad Harzburg
Thursday 23rd – Bad Harzburg
Saturday 25th – Bad Harzburg
Sunday 26th – Munich, Cologne, Bad Harzburg, Erbach
Thursday 30th – Bad Doberan
Friday 31st – Bad DoberanAUGUST:
Saturday 1st – Bad Doberan
Sunday 2nd – Duesseldorf, Bad Doberan
Friday 7th – Bremen
Saturday 8th – Dresden
Sunday 9th – Hannover
Friday 14th – Hoppegarten
Saturday 15th – Munich, Saarbruecken
Sunday 16th – Cologne, Frankfurt
Wednesday 19th – Hannover
Saturday 22nd – Halle
Sunday 23rd – Bremen, Duesseldorf, Miesau
Saturday 29th – Baden-Baden, Gotha
Sunday 30th – Baden-Baden, HoppegartenSEPTEMBER:
Tuesday 1st – Baden-Baden
Wednesday 2nd – Baden-Baden
Friday 4th – Baden-Baden
Saturday 5th – Hassloch
Sunday 6th – Baden-Baden, Dresden, Quackenbrueck
Saturday 12th – Hoppegarten, Muelheim
Sunday 13th – Munich, Hannover, Leipzig, Lebach
Friday 18th – Bremen
Saturday 19th – Krefeld, Halle
Sunday 20th – Frankfurt, Duesseldorf, Billigheim, Karlsruhe
Saturday 26th – Gotha
Sunday 27th – Cologne, Dresden, MannheimOCTOBER:
Saturday 3rd – Hoppegarten, Muelheim, Munich
Sunday 4th – Dortmund, Hannover, Honzrath
Saturday 10th – Dresden
Sunday 11th – Duesseldorf, Frankfurt, Meissenheim
Saturday 17th – Leipzig
Sunday 18th – Cologne, Munich, Saarbruecken
Friday 23rd – Baden-Baden
Saturday 24th – Baden-Baden
Sunday 25th – Baden-Baden, Magdeburg
Saturday 31st – HalleNOVEMBER:
Sunday 1st – Hannover, Munich
Sunday 8th – Krefeld
Sunday 15th – Neuss
Wednesday 18th – Dresden
Sunday 22nd – Bremen
Sunday 29th – NeussDECEMBER:
Sunday 6th – Dortmund
Sunday 13th – Neuss
Sunday 20th – Dortmund
Saturday 26th – Neuss
Sunday 27th – Dortmund
Thursday 31st – NeussHope this helps. If anyone wants to know more about where some of these places are, and where the nearest airports are from the UK, let me know.
Darren – AngloGerman
________________________________________‘The Hungarian’s going hell for leather’ – Jim McGrath
Just to say thatsome of the country meetins in Germany look like a good day out. With pony racin, carriage driving, and one of them even had a race for cart horses a bit like the Clydesdale races at Irvine Marymass races. Looked like great fun and all sorts of stuff going on for all ages too. I’d certainly go if I was nearby even if it does not have jumps. The mounted trottin looks interesting sport.
That’s terrific, Darren, very many thanks! I’d forgotten that Sport-Welt might be a possibility, having sourced a copy when I was last in Germany three months ago – that day’s edition only carried the following one month’s worth of fixtures.
I hadn’t realised that there were quite so many courses operating on only one or two days a year. They must be the real salt of the Earth country meetings, I presume, with atmospheres and facilities more akin to a point-to-point? I wonder how they’re sustained / sustainable economically.
I think I know the locations of pretty much all the courses – there are enough small ones in Rheinland-Pfalz and Nordrhein-Westphalia, aren’t there! Can I just check with you which Walldorf and which Erbach are meant, please? I know there are a few places with each name in the country.
Finally, just remind me – isn’t Cuxhaven to an extent the German equivalent of Laytown? I seem to remember you posting up some pictures of Flat and harness racing on the beach there.
Cheers again, Darren – just what I was after!
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)PS Apropos of Sport-Welt – is that the only comparable paper (daily or otherwise) to the Post in Germany? Better still, is there anything out there that attempts to provide German-language Spotlights / post-race analysis of British racing? I’m sure there are one or two on here who could offer their services if so.
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
German sand racing is of a really poor standard!
Theirs zero atmosphere on the track
Trust me, having survived Kempton last week I’m sure I won’t find it too torpid! The sprachpraktische Übung element will keep me entertained if nothing else.
The racing authorities cannot be trusted to put on a programme!
I have wondered about that in the past – races seem to drop off a racecard between initial entry and overnight entry stage quite frequently, especially jumps races. I presume that’s predicated by a lack of entries for certain races, but either way, are the authorities over there generally less agile where it comes to, say, dividing races to ensure a minimum six-race card can take place?
Its colder in this part of the world
If you really want the German experience go to Baden Baden/Cologne/Dusseldorf/Hamburg during the normal racing season!!
Oh, they’re on the list as well, worry not! Annoyingly the aforementioned cheap Ryanair tickets all sold out long before the Friday deadline this time, which hasn’t happened before (recession era day-breaks at recession-era discounts, I guess), but let’s see if I can’t get to one or more of these places later in the year.
Whatever you decide,have a nice time!
Much obliged!
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
I hadn’t realised that there were quite so many courses operating on only one or two days a year. They must be the real salt of the Earth country meetings, I presume, with atmospheres and facilities more akin to a point-to-point? I wonder how they’re sustained / sustainable economically.
The only what I would call a ‘country meeting’ that I’ve been to is Saarbruecken, but there was a really decent crowd there, and it’s treated as a day out for the family there. Theres loads for kids to do, and with so many people through the gate (I guess there were about 4,000 there), plus the fact that there’s some decent sponsorship, so I don’t think money is too much an issue (especially when every other car in the car park seems to be a brand new Mercedes!)
I think I know the locations of pretty much all the courses – there are enough small ones in Rheinland-Pfalz and Nordrhein-Westphalia, aren’t there! Can I just check with you which Walldorf and which Erbach are meant, please? I know there are a few places with each name in the country.
Walldorf is just south of Heidelberg on the A5 Autobahn, and Erbach is kind of between Mannheim and Frankfurt, in the Odenwald area.
Finally, just remind me – isn’t Cuxhaven to an extent the German equivalent of Laytown? I seem to remember you posting up some pictures of Flat and harness racing on the beach there..
Yes, that’s the one. However, there are a couple of places on the River Elbe near Hamburg that also offer beach racing, although they don’t appear on any DVR lists. One of these is the Elbstrand races at Krautsand, and their website offers for me, a photo that really sums up the ‘unusualness’ of the place. It appears to be a race between a trotter, two speedboats, a police boat, and a cargo ship!
http://www.elbstrandrennen.de/BilderRen … _2873.html
I’d like to see them try that at Kempton!!!
Darren – AngloGerman
________________________________________‘The Hungarian’s going hell for leather’ – Jim McGrath
German sand racing is of a really poor standard!
Theirs zero atmosphere on the track
Trust me, having survived Kempton last week I’m sure I won’t find it too torpid! The sprachpraktische Übung element will keep me entertained if nothing else.
Picture the scene. It’s 6:20 on Saturday evening. It’s snowing, and the last race (due off at 5:50) is yet to take place. As our syndicate had a runner, we made our way into the parade ring. And you know what? We were the ONLY OWNERS IN THERE!! All the others had gone home! The last race, I think, took place in front of about 150 people. I watch the race in the grandstand, and the other peopleI could see were stable staff, trainers etc – that was it!!!
The racing authorities cannot be trusted to put on a programme!
I have wondered about that in the past – races seem to drop off a racecard between initial entry and overnight entry stage quite frequently, especially jumps races. I presume that’s predicated by a lack of entries for certain races, but either way, are the authorities over there generally less agile where it comes to, say, dividing races to ensure a minimum six-race card can take place?
On the DVR website, there is a always the reason why a race has been cancelled, and usually, it is due to lack of entries (minimum if 5).
I was originally due to go to Dortmund on 1st November, where a 10 race card as set up. Unfortunately, only 33 entries were received, so due to the lack of entries, the meeting was cancelled. I’m not sure if you can blame the racing authorites – at the end of the day, if trainers won’t run their horses, there’s not a lot you can do!
Darren – AngloGerman
________________________________________‘The Hungarian’s going hell for leather’ – Jim McGrath
Darren……Whats the reason for trainers not running horses?
-Pathetic prize money?
-The risk of being loaded into the starting stalls (Averages about 7 mins per race!
-The total lack of professionalism of the small men (Jockeys)……..The last time we where supposed to have a runner in Germany (Munich), the jockey decided he didn`t want to stay for the last race (Helfenbein), we where told 25 mins before the race was supposed to begin,we couldn`t find any replacement who wasn`t drunk by this stage, result 1000KM round journey + costs for nothing, after discussing this with the idiots in Cologne we made the decision that we wouldn`t race in Germany again!
-Poor conditions of the racing surface ….Horses breaking down!!
-An extremely poor h`capper who helps assist uncompetitive racing!!
The racing in Germany has been systimatically ruined over the years,theirs no trust in the Tote that takes out a greedy 25% +, its not uncommen for the placed horses to return 10,10,10 ie money back……in other words you can lose but you cannot win!!
Bookmakers and the racing authorities have been at war for years with regards to a fair price for the pictures, the authorities want about the same price for an average of 3 meetings per week as SIS charge for 20!!
Unless something radical happens their will be no racing in Germany in the future,the economics don`t add up!
I would “fire“ the lot of them (including the trilbied steward who threw out Bahama Mama) and start afresh!
Its sad really as their are some decent trainers in Germany!!
Hoppegarten is a nice track and is worth going to, with Berlin obviously another plus. Baden Baden (Iffezheim) is worth a trip End of August. German Derby in Hamburg is already for the hardliners (and it is my local track!) , as since I invited friends over from England think the place is a dump, sorry to say! there is one or two nice smaller track (you mentioned some in here already), but racing is really lowish class at moment, even the Group-races. All the above is true as well, sorry to say.
DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING RACING IN GERMANY FROM JAN – MARCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ITS CRAP!!!!!!
Darren……Whats the reason for trainers not running horses?
-Pathetic prize money?The richest race on Saturday at Dortmund was worth 5700 Euros (about £4500) and the lowest 3400 Euros (about £2500) so pretty much like a low quality meeting at Southwell I guess. Compared to France however, there’s quite a difference, but there’s no all weather races there at the moment – waiting for the Cagnes season I think.
-The risk of being loaded into the starting stalls (Averages about 7 mins per race!
The last race at Dortmund was due off at 5:50 pm on Saturday, but went off at 6:30! This is due to the horses taking an absolute age to load as you say (7 minutes is actually quite optimistic sometimes!!). Race after race, we fell behind schedule, and anyone who sees the Sunday coverage on SIS will know that weekly, German racing loses its scheduling as the day goes on. Especially the ‘parade’ before the steeplechase at Krefeld 3 weeks ago – talk about bizarre!
-The total lack of professionalism of the small men (Jockeys)……..The last time we where supposed to have a runner in Germany (Munich), the jockey decided he didn`t want to stay for the last race (Helfenbein), we where told 25 mins before the race was supposed to begin,we couldn`t find any replacement who wasn`t drunk by this stage, result 1000KM round journey + costs for nothing, after discussing this with the idiots in Cologne we made the decision that we wouldn`t race in Germany again!
I’m surprised to hear that about Helfenbein, as he’s one of the more professional jockeys, but here are three examples that you might find interesting:
Neuss, March 2008 – We had a horse running, but only about 40 minutes before the race, the jockey told us he was ill and couldn’t make the ride. We managed to find a last minute replacement, and the horse went on to finish third.
Baden-Baden, October 2008 – In the big hurdle race, one of the horses had to have a late change of rider after the planned jockey was found to be drunk. A replacement jockey was found, and the horse finished second.
November 2008 – What looked like being an exciting finish to the years German Jockeys Championship has come to an end with Filip Minarik, just 8 wins behind Eddie Pedroza in the title race, announcing that he’s going on holiday after the Bremen meeting on Sunday. Apparently, he’s quite happy with being second!!
-Poor conditions of the racing surface ….Horses breaking down!!
Well, grass surfaces are OK, and we’ve raced plenty of horses there and not had them breaking down, (you can get quite firm/hard ground down in the smaller south west tracks in summer though) but the all weather surface at Dortmund could do with relaying – it’s quite old, and when it got wet on Saturday, the kickback was horrendous.
-Its sad really as their are some decent trainers in Germany!!
German trainers have done pretty well overseas this season, especially on the raids in France, with horses like Fair Breeze and Lady Marian (both, interestingly, being offered at the forthcoming Newmarket sales) claiming some decent group prizes. Added to that, Atamane rapidly turning into the best hurdler Germany has ever seen and Christian plundering races in the UK as usual, the proof is there that Germans know how to train horses.
Darren – AngloGerman
________________________________________‘The Hungarian’s going hell for leather’ – Jim McGrath
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