- This topic has 520 replies, 60 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 3 months ago by
.
- Posts
I may well be wrong but I think this is a red herring. Seems to be a dispute between 2 jockeys who are more than happy to air their argument publicly. This doesn’t smack of harassment or bullying to me. I’d be more inclined to look for a higher profile male rider. I reckon if it was a conditional like Williams, we’d have had the result by now.
Slightly more detail from the Racng Post of 21 October:
A second case is working its way through racing’s tortuous disciplinary system in which a female jockey has complained about the behaviour of a male jockey. The existence of the case, which relates to a one-off incident in a changing-room area last year, was revealed in a national newspaper report on Thursday morning.
The female jockey in question has not spoken to reporters, does not wish to discuss her case outwith the formal process and is said to be distressed details have leaked out. It is being dealt with as a safeguarding issue and therefore she hopes and expects not to be named in public at any stage.
Her supporters say she is now questioning whether she should have come forward with her complaint. She is receiving support from the Professional Jockeys Association.
And someone else has gone to the press with historical allegations….
David Walsh for The Sunday Times, 24/10/2021.
Bryony Frost’s bullying inquiry shines light on culture of silence in the weighing room alien to other workplaces
The camaraderie between jockeys has created a culture that condones threatening behaviour and frowns upon those who report it
In the first of two written statements submitted to the British Horseracing Authority on October 7 last year, Bryony Frost complained about fellow jockey Robbie Dunne. The 26-year-old said that she had been threatened by him and that she feared for her wellbeing. Dunne denied behaving in this way. Frost listed the names of fellow jockeys Lilly Pinchin, Millie Wonnacott, Gina Andrews, Hannah Welch and Page Fuller as others who had been on the receiving end of what she described as Dunne’s “crudeness”.
Two weeks later, Nathan Taylor, a BHA investigator, began calling the other jockeys. Pinchin told Taylor that she was aware of the allegations made by Frost as they had discussed the situation. She told the investigator that Dunne could be childish on occasions but that she had never been bullied by him, nor had she witnessed Dunne bullying or being inappropriate with anyone else.
Taylor then spoke with Andrews who said Dunne had been occasionally rude to her but described this as “insignificant”. On no occasion had she witnessed him behaving in a bullying or inappropriate way. Fuller said that early in her career, Dunne had engaged in what she described as “persistent banter” but after she spoke to him about it, he changed his behaviour. Now, she said, they get on quite well.
Wonnacott told Taylor that while Dunne would not be to everyone’s taste she had not witnessed any bullying behaviour. Pinchin, Andrews, Fuller and Wonnacott all still ride. The other name on Frost’s list was Welch who had ridden as an amateur until quitting the sport in June last year. She left racing to pursue a nursing career. Her story was different to the others.
“I was not treated with respect as a jockey,” Welch wrote in her statement to the BHA. “I can only presume that this was because I was an amateur riding against professionals and looking to win. If, for example, I was to say before a race, ‘I’m going to be on the inner’, I would be told, ‘actually, you’re not.’ If I dared to line up at the front or the inner, I would be sworn at and intimidated and told bluntly that I was not taking that position.”
Welch then recalled an afternoon at Chepstow in October, 2018. “There was an incident which involved Robbie Dunne, 42. It occurred following a race in which I rode Foxy Lass. Mr Dunne confronted me after the race. This happened some years ago and I cannot remember exactly what was said. It was along the lines of ‘you’ve no right to go on my inner. It’s completely out of order. We’d all lined up so you can’t go pushing up the inner of professional jockeys’.
“Mr Dunne placed himself right in front of me and was squaring and mouthing off at me. He swore at me multiple times. This went on for around one minute. The incident occurred in front of the entire weighing room. I was crying and did not say anything back. When I look back on this, I find it bizarre that none of the other jockeys intervened and said to Mr Dunne he had gone far enough.
“There was no justification for what happened afterwards. The reason I was on Mr Dunne’s inner was there had been problems lining up the field prior to the start. I was led into the start by one of the stewards and that is how I ended up on the inside. Mr Dunne accused me of cutting him up but that did not happen and there was no stewards inquiry into anything like that.”
Welch felt that there was a culture in the weighing room where it was permissible to treat novice, amateur and female jockeys badly. She believes that what was acceptable in the weighing room would not be in most other work places. Because of the intimidation, she stopped riding over fences and though enjoying some success on the Flat, she tired of the working conditions and walked away from racing last year.
“I am no longer involved in racing in terms of race riding or working for any particular trainer,” she wrote in her statement. “I can imagine that it would be more difficult for a person still involved in racing to make a statement like this.”
If proof of this was needed, it came in a story in The Times last week that reported a new complaint made by a female jockey against a male colleague. The complainant insisted that her name would not be disclosed.
At the many racecourses around the country, jockeys have their own spot in the weighing room. They take their places close to the valet they work with and into this sanctuary, few outsiders are permitted. In the weighing room they can be themselves; crass one minute, caring the next. Among them, there is a camaraderie unlike any sport because every time a race starts, so too does the ambulance that follows them.
For the champion jockey and the journeyman rider, the danger is the same. They all knew a colleague killed in a fall. For support they lean on each other, like monks in an enclosed order. Of course they have their rows but they sort things out among themselves. In their world they learn to take it, give it and forget it.
The difference with Frost and Dunne was that after falling out, they never fell back in. They got off on the wrong foot and set up camp there. Then in September 2020 Frost made an official complaint to the BHA alleging that Dunne, one of the senior jockeys in the weighing room, had subjected her to bullying and threatening behaviour.
The Sunday Times has seen the BHA report, which makes the case against the Irishman. Clause 111 on page 20 says: “The BHA’s case is that Mr Dunne’s treatment of Ms Frost is simply an unacceptable campaign of bullying and harassment amounting to a breach of Rule (J)19.” Dunne is now entitled to an oral hearing during which he can challenge the evidence.
In his interview with the BHA, Dunne was asked about the reaction inside the weighing room to Frost since her official complaint. “Not good,” he replied. Asked why this should be, he said, “Cos it’s not the done thing.” Frost had gone outside the family. Frost provided two detailed statements to the BHA, Dunne was interviewed for more than an hour by investigators. Their recollections of key incidents in their fraught relationship differed and the investigators then turned their attention to weighing-room colleagues who’d witnessed the worst of the exchanges. For example, the most unpleasant alleged incident took place at Southwell racecourse on September 3 last year after Dunne accused Frost of riding in a way that caused his horse to fall and suffer a fatal injury.
Frost insisted she had not done anything wrong, a view that the stewards endorsed. Dunne continued to insist that Frost’s careless riding had caused the death of his horse and in the weighing room, he told her that next time, he would put her through the wing of a fence. Their row happened in front of many colleagues. The BHA investigators interviewed witnesses, including senior jockeys Tom Scudamore and Nico De Boinville.
Scudamore told the BHA investigator that he didn’t think Frost had ridden dangerously but that she should have stayed straight. Dunne and Frost did have words in the weighing room but, in his opinion, it was nothing out of the ordinary. If there had been anything out of order, he would have intervened. He said that what took place was no different to the things heard in the weighing room every third day.
De Boinville told the investigator that context was key to what took place between Frost and Dunne as the latter was upset by the death of his horse, Cillian’s Well. He remembers Dunne blaming Frost for his fall and though De Boinville didn’t think Frost had ridden dangerously, she should have stayed straight. The verbal altercation, said De Boinville, was nothing out of the ordinary. De Boinville said he hoped he would have stepped in and taken Dunne to one side if Dunne had been “over the top”.
Paul O’Brien, another jockey, couldn’t remember exactly what was said but that Dunne was shouting at Frost and there might have been “the odd swear word” but that in his opinion, Dunne was not “over the top”. Like Scudamore and De Boinville, O’Brien said he would have intervened if he thought Dunne had gone too far.
In their examination of a heated exchange between Frost and Dunne in the pull-up area after a different race at Stratford on July 8 last year, the investigators spoke to two jockeys who were in close proximity, Adam Wedge and Lorcan Murtagh. Both recalled some harsh words being spoken but couldn’t recall what exactly what. The disagreement, they said, wasn’t anything unusual.
One of the investigators, Chris Watts, pressed Murtagh who insisted that he couldn’t recall what was said. Asked if he knew anything about the difficulties between Frost and Dunne, Murtagh repeated that he liked to keep his head down. The next day, Watts, the BHA’s head of integrity assurance, met the young jockey again who asked him not to tell anyone what he had told him. Watts said: “But you haven’t told me anything.”
Another jockey, Gavin Sheehan, witnessed the row in Southwell and recalled Dunne laughing at Frost. Sheehan said he felt Dunne was being harsh on Frost but said he would not describe Dunne as a bully. He said Dunne was more of “a piss-taker, a class clown”. Richie McLernon told the BHA that he had no problem with the way Frost rides and described her as a brilliant rider. He also stated that he gets on well with Frost and Dunne.
Three valets who witnessed the weighing-room row in Southwell were interviewed. Graham Piper provided a statement in which he recalled the incident but couldn’t remember what was said. “It was just something I would class as bickering,” he said. His colleague Mark Sinfield offered the same take.
A third valet, Lewis Piper, told the BHA that he remembered Dunne being annoyed but not aggressive. As for the confrontation, “it wasn’t particularly heated; I would describe it more as bickering”. All three valets used the same word to describe what took place: bickering.
Based on what they heard from Frost and Welch, the admission by Dunne that he told Frost he would put her through a wing and the fact that no one in the weighing room felt the need to intervene on Frost’s behalf, the BHA concluded that there is a cultural issue in the weighing room that condones threatening behaviour and frowns upon the reporting of it. The BHA also believed this culture was the reason it found it difficult to get detailed witness evidence from those inside the weighing room.
On February 9 this year, Watts received a phone call from Frost. She had been riding at Kempton Park that day and told him that during the first race she was in the women’s changing room when Chris Maude knocked on the door and asked if he could have a chat. Formerly a successful jockey, Maude now runs a valet operation. As Frost came from her changing room, Maude was standing there with Dunne. “No,” said Frost on seeing Dunne and she then went straight back to her changing room.
Maude followed and Frost remembered him saying something to the effect of, “Me and Dickie [senior jockey Richard Johnson] want to draw a line under this and put a stop to this.” Things had gone too far for Frost, “I tried all of that for a long time and it got worse and worse,” she said. “The problem was that nobody stood up for me. It was not fair. I had to go to them [the BHA]. You don’t know what it was like.”
Maude said: “This is a private conversation. What can we do to make this better?”
“Get me a ticket out of here,” Frost replied.
Story ends.
Thanks for posting that Seasider. Noting that these are all still just allegations at this stage, it continues to add weight to the suggestion that there is a serious cultural issue. Dunne sounds deeply unpleasant.
The only thing I would disagree with is that this culture of bullying is only found in jumps racing. I’d say it’s very common in a lot of working environments. I’ve certainly worked for organisations where the mentality has been “this is the way we do things here, don’t rock the boat if you know what’s good for you” see also the prevalent attitude in many offices that if you aren’t working millions of hours you aren’t doing a good job (could it be I’m just more efficient than you?).
Anyway it will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes out of this. I suspect a lot of hand-wringing and platitudes but very little actual change.
In any competitive environment there are bound to be bust ups. Its a matter of whether this has a sexist element to it or just a beef between two jockeys. Many seem to be at pains to say its not sexism. I’d wait till its finished before making any assumptions but it’s clear from all that’s emerged that there is awful code of silence in the weighing room. I would have hoped the likes of ap McCoy over the jumps or Ryan Moore on the flat would have intervened if they saw continued bullying. Doesn’t reflect well on jockeys IMHO.
It seems that if you are a trainer or a jockey and you say that you are sad because of wasting to make weight, injury, a lack of winners, rides or horses being taken away from you, drug or alcohol abuse, family tragedy or underlying mental health issues such as depression, you are “so brave to speak up” and given a big pat on the back. Especially if you can say that you were sad, but with the help of the marvellous racing industry including fellow jocks, you’re all better now.
But if you say that you are sad because of a sustained campaign of bullying and intimidation including sexual harassment and threats of physical violence from a fellow jockey, there’s a sharp intake of breath (“Not in public dear, you’re making the family look bad”). It will be very interesting to see whether, if the complaints are upheld, anyone in the racing media will hail Bryony as a brave trailblazer in this regard.
Its a matter of whether this has a sexist element to it or just a beef between two jockeys.
It’s not just whether there’s a sexist element; it’s also whether it’s just a “beef”- a “falling out” as Alice Plunkett phrased it or “bickering” as the valets in that piece put it, or a mostly one-way intimidation of one jockey by another- i.e. bullying. The allegations would still be concerning even if they did not include sexist language and actions. It’s not just about the treatment of women but also about the treatment of amateurs and youngsters.Dunne said he reported an anonymous “break your legs” phonecall to the PJA. If the response to that was indeed “oh well, never mind” then the weighing room’s perception of “normal” is seriously screwed up and they are not fit to police themselves, quite frankly.
The PJA is now calling for the case to be dropped because of the leaks to the media.
While I recognise their point about Dunne’s right to a fair hearing, it is not a good look to in effect be saying that the whole matter should be brushed under the carpet and forgotten about because a few jockeys are upset about how the culture of the weighing room has been portrayed.
And it makes it look they care more about Dunne’s rights than the targets of his alleged bullying.
https://www.racingtv.com/news/pja-calls-for-end-to-bha-investigation-into-frost-dunne-case
Staggering they are asking for it to be dropped. So dunces right Trump getting to what actually happened. If it is dropped it will only lead to an inevitable terrible impression of racing to the casual racegoers. The nothing to see here mantra cannot be accepted. Finish the process or racing could face constant bad headlines.
Whereas Bryony Frost had 52 rides in October 2020, she has a mere 10 to her name so far in October 2021.
If anyone can think of a reason unrelated to the current controversy I’d be pleased to hear it.
Greenasgrass,
Totally agree with you, from everything that’s come out so far the weighing room culture appears all wrong.Mickey,
“If it is dropped it will only lead to an inevitable terrible impression of racing to the casual racegoers”.Quite possibly, but you’re somewhat missing the point. What dropping the case looks like should have absolutely nothing to do with whether the case should continue or be dropped. The only thing that matters is whether both Dunne and Frost can have a fair hearing… And if it can not be fair the case has to be dropped.
Value Is Everything“see also the prevalent attitude in many offices that if you aren’t working millions of hours you aren’t doing a good job (could it be I’m just more efficient than you?).”
God that rings a few bells. I absolutely detest it, and Directors absolutely love it and let it grow like a poisonous weed, surrepticiously encouraging it, as everyone is sewn up in water-tight “reasonable overtime is deemed to be included in your Salary” Contracts. Massively prevalent in Construction Middle-Management / Commercial roles from my experience.
I used to work with a bloke who was so paranoid of keeping this “reputation” of working ridiculous hours (for no extra money of course!), I discovered he was saving about a dozen of his e-mails in his ‘Drafts’ each and every day, and then clicking ‘send’ every 15 minutes or so during every evening! I could never decide if to pity the blokes insecurity or just think he was an absolute sad tosser.
BUY THE SUN
Gingertipster there isn’t a point to this merely a steady stream of terrible impressions the general public are getting into what goes on and how it’s governed.In what business does it take months and months to conclude an inquiry. It was inevitable there would be leaks. Had this been concluded swiftly then none of the headlines happen. The quicker the facts are out the better. From listening to a few jockeys recently the inference is that they do close ranks in some misguided brotherhood. If someone is out of order they need dealt with. Or are we to await the drip feeding of more misdeeds before something is done about it. After the Gordon elliot picture racing is struggling to get money in to the sport. I cant see this case and its unbelievably bad handling helping in the slightest and as a racing fan for over 50 years that saddens me.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.