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Quote: from seabird on 12:26 pm on May 14, 2007[br]John, I tend to agree with you but it is easier with hindsight.
If she had held on by a short-head it would have been job-done and then onto the Irish version. <br>
Possibly seabird, or he could have bottomed the horse out and may never reproduce her performance in Newmarket. That would be a shame.
JohnJ.
Is Jim Bolger one for risking overfacing a horse or generally cautious? He doesnt appear to wrap them in cotton wool… But i wonder if hes done a bit of a martin pipe previously… (bit of previous there… squire :cool: )
Genuine question..
Quote: from johnjdonoghue on 12:22 pm on May 14, 2007[br]I think somebody commented here recently that Jim Bolger is one of the shrewdest trainers in Ireland. I think by sending FB to Longchamp for a second classic in the space of a week shows clearly how unshrewd he is.
JohnJ.<br>Quote:
Maybe it wasn’t Bolgers idea, it could have been the owners (or both). Some people seem to think that top class 3yo olds are a different species of animal alltogether than say a 3yr old h/capper, who could run twenty times a season (their made of the same flesh and blood). Finscael Beo is going to race 3 times in four weeks "wow". More of the same lets see racehorses do what they were bred to do "Race"
MM,
I accept your point mate and respect your opinion. The FB I saw at Longchamp was not the same FB that ran in Newmarket. The horse was obviously jaded in the closing stages. She is not handicapper running in low grade races, there are plenty of Group 1 races from May to October for her to compete in, and I would much prefer to see her run to her best form rather than the laborious effort I witnessed at Longchamp.
If you had a 340,000 Euro horse would you run it 20 times a year?
JohnJ.
Quote: from johnjdonoghue on 12:42 pm on May 15, 2007[br]MM,
I accept your point mate and respect your opinion. The FB I saw at Longchamp was not the same FB that ran in Newmarket. The horse was obviously jaded in the closing stages. She is not handicapper running in low grade races, there are plenty of Group 1 races from May to October for her to compete in, and I would much prefer to see her run to her best form rather than the laborious effort I witnessed at Longchamp.
If you had a 340,000 Euro horse would you run it 20 times a year?
JohnJ.
I think we should reserve judgement on wether she ran below par JJ, until the protaganists run again, its easy to crab the form because she started at prohibitive odds. But as I have already said that Darjina was quietly fancied by connections, who as you know certainly know the time of day where Fillies are concerned, rahiyah’s form ties in closely with Finsceal, it could turn out to be a well above average French Guineas.
Patrick.
PS. I dont think there would be 20 races open to her, but her owners are obviously a care free lot who have a top class filly and are entitled to have a little or a lot of fun with her. If she was owned by Magnier & Co, of course her racecourse appearances would be much more selective. I wouldn’t be surprised if she is running in Hong Kong in December.
MM, the fact that rahiyah was only a length down when receiving no weight, after FB had stuffed her by 3 1/2l giving her 4lbs in the rockfel says to me that its likely that FB didn;t quite run up to her full potential. You could argue against that but that would be my view.
Darjina is definitely a very high class filly (Princess Zara now as her and Mandesha, probably two of the best four fillies in europe, lucky girl) and I don’t think a fully prepped FB would have won by much but she visibly tied up at Longchamp, which she definitely did not in the English version.. I would imagine Darjina will tackle 10f sooner than FB will so whether they will meet again is debatable…
Quote: from Aragorn on 1:17 pm on May 15, 2007[br]MM, the fact that rahiyah was only a length down when receiving no weight, after FB had stuffed her by 3 1/2l giving her 4lbs in the rockfel says to me that its likely that FB didn;t quite run up to her full potential. You could argue against that but that would be my view.
Maybe Rahiyah has closed gap over the winter Aragorn, a lot of horses do from 2 to 3. Hopefully Darjina will go and win the Prix de Diane and Finsceal Beo will win the Irish Guineas. I suppose there is a small possibility that they might meet in the Coronation stakes, which is Rahiyah’s target.
I don’t think winning a group1 within a week of the guineas is on. To get a horse ready for the first classic means special preparation before the winter is fully over. To expect the winner of the 1thousand guineas to come out and win another group1 race six days later is <br>unreal. I bet John Oxx is looking forward to the rematch right now! A filly who sets a record should be given time to recover,IMO.
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Quote: from andyod on 5:15 am on May 16, 2007[br]I don’t think winning a group1 within a week of the guineas is on. To get a horse ready for the first classic means special preparation before the winter is fully over. To expect the winner of the 1thousand guineas to come out and win another group1 race six days later is <br>unreal. I bet John Oxx is looking forward to the rematch right now! A filly who sets a record should be given time to recover,IMO.
The person responsible for Racing Post Ratings also echoes this view, but is it correct?<br>Could it not just be that the filly didn’t stay a fast run mile as well as she did on Newmarket’s quicker surface, or even that she just isn’t as good without faster ground?<br>Her only previous victory on a slower surface was in a gp3 over 7f, her Marcel Boussac was won on ground much faster than the official good, and her only unplaced effort was on soft ground in a race she has since proved she should have eaten?<br>One thing is for sure, if she comes out and wins the Irish Guineas, those who think they know how to time her races better than her trainer are going to look pretty silly.
Quote: from reet hard on 6:30 am on May 16, 2007[br]
Quote: from andyod on 5:15 am on May 16, 2007[br]I don’t think winning a group1 within a week of the guineas is on. To get a horse ready for the first classic means special preparation before the winter is fully over. To expect the winner of the 1thousand guineas to come out and win another group1 race six days later is <br>unreal. I bet John Oxx is looking forward to the rematch right now! A filly who sets a record should be given time to recover,IMO.
The person responsible for Racing Post Ratings also echoes this view, but is it correct?<br>Could it not just be that the filly didn’t stay a fast run mile as well as she did on Newmarket’s quicker surface, or even that she just isn’t as good without faster ground?<br>Her only previous victory on a slower surface was in a gp3 over 7f, her Marcel Boussac was won on ground much faster than the official good, and her only unplaced effort was on soft ground in a race she has since proved she should have eaten?<br>One thing is for sure, if she comes out and wins the Irish Guineas, those who think they know how to time her races better than her trainer are going to look pretty silly.
The Newmarket race would have been much more of a stamina test than Longchamp. There are a couple of bends at the latter track which allow horses to slow up and catch some air. They don’t get that at HQ. Most analysts agree that to win at a mile there in a fast time a horse needs to stay it well.
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<br>Maurice
While I take your point about the different track configuration, aren’t you ignoring the difference in the going.<br>Long standing records like the Newmarket Guineas aren’t beaten without plenty of help from conditions on the day.
Goffs Time based ground according to RP = G-Soft
only two horses that race on the stand side finished in the top ten
2nd Regime, beaten 1.25L – towards rear, ridden and stayed on well to lead stands
6th Finscael Beo, beaten 3.25L – chased leaders on stands’ side, led group 2f out
<br>Conclusion,
she was racing against the bias and probably paid for chasing an overly strong early gallop on her side, but had no problems with the ground conditions and her subsequent comfortable Rockfel win under a penalty on good – soft confirms cut is no problem
Longchamp time based ground is given as Good to firm
(Edited by empty wallet at 12:39 pm on May 16, 2007)
A review of the goffs Million2006 might throw some extra light on the Derby and Oaks. 4Sins was fancied by Oxx and ran a stinker. Since that her form this year is very impressive.<br>Regime finished ahead of Finsceal Beo by a long way(both on the wrong side of the track)!<br>Both horses should be followed.
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<br>Tell me again how overtrained she is!:biggrin: :biggrin:
She was tying up again, but this time no horse near her ability (imo) in race and she hung on
I would be surprsied if she won again, she looks like she has had enough already
(Edited by newyork at 6:05 pm on May 27, 2007)
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Quote: from newyork on 5:13 pm on May 27, 2007[br]I would be surprsied if she won again, she looks like she has had enough already<br>
I’d be amazed if she didn’t.:o <br>The Coronation Stakes is her’s for the taking, particularly on faster ground.;)
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