Fred Winter / Doug Smith

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This topic contains 10 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Marginal Value 2 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #1445123

    kellyboy47
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    I started following horse racing as a boy and used to pick my selections out from the Daily Mirror and pit my skills against Newsboy & Bouverie all this before I went to school :-) My hero’s were the legendary Fred Winter and Doug Smith on the flat who I always followed and now in my retirent years my hobby is collecting racecards featuring these 2 greats for which I have many but am always looking for more :-) . I remember my Dad taking me to Epsom during the latter part of the 1960’s and I remember Doug Smith having a double at one of those meetings and one of the horses was named Young Man’s Fancy. If any member can give me anymore information regarding this or what websites might have this archived information I would appreciate your help

    Trev

    #1445144

    Marginal Value
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    Welcome to The Racing Form. I hope you have a good time here.

    Fred Winter – what a hero! Doug Smith – everything you wanted from a jockey, talent and integrity.

    It was the Bank Holiday meeting at Epsom on Monday 3rd August 1964; so you may have been a few years younger than you thought. Young Man’s Fancy won the Fifinella Stakes for three-year-old fillies over ten furlongs. Earlier in the year she had won the Pretty Polly Stakes at Newmarket, and had finished eighth of eighteen in The Oaks. To complete Doug Smith’s double Just Whistle won the Paddock Handicap for three-year-olds over six furlongs. Both horses were trained by Geoffrey Brooke, Smith’s main supplier of winners at the time, though first claim was always held by Lord Derby. Both horses were owned by Daniel Van Clief, who was a very rich man from Virginia USA, whose family had been breeding top class thoroughbreds since the nineteenth century. He was well known in the UK as the owner of Crocket (also trained by Brooke and ridden by Smith) who was the unbeaten champion two-year-old of 1962 and astonishing winner of the St James’s Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot in 1963. His main claim to fame worldwide was as one of the two partners who bred Natalma, the dam of Northern Dancer.

    I do not know of any one resource that collates racing information from that far back. Most of what I know comes from having a big library of racing books and access to The Times Archive which I use for long-ago racing cards and results going back to the eighteenth century. I do not know of any regular source of old real racing cards, sorry.

    #1445148

    kellyboy47
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    Hi,

    Thank you so much for this invaluable information as I have been trying really hard to remember when I went. Yes, I was 10 at the time and the only Epsom card I have is the 1964 Santa Claus Derby. I thought my Dad took me to a Derby meeting but I thought it was the Charlottown Derby. With regards to The Times Archive is it expensive to subscribe.
    Thanks again for your help and hope to speak to you again

    #1445158

    Marginal Value
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    Access to The Times Archive is one of the great things about life in the UK. It is Free! I hope your local public library systems work just like mine. You do not have to vist a library to use the Archive; you can access it online. Go to your County or Borough Library and sign up, for free, to be a member of the Library. You will be given a card with a membership number on it. Your local authority website usually has a “Library” section which should have somewhere a tree of succesive pages like; – Reference Online, News Magazines & Research, The Times Digital Archive 1785-2012 (Not the general British Newspapers archive). The Archive is hosted by Gale Databases. When you click on The Times Digital Archive you will be asked to enter your Library number. If all goes well, you will be in. I find it best to go to a specific date rather than do a general search which usually returns too many options. If it does not go well, I have always found library staff very helpful; and there is always the possibility of accessing the Archive from one of the computers in the Library building. If physical access to a Library building is not easy for you, you may have to persevere with getting online information from the library staff. When you get to the archive you can make the text bigger or smaller by using the + or – magnifying glass icons, and you can move the newspaper’s page around inside the screen by holding down the mouse/cursor key and dragging it around. I hope it all works out well for you.

    #1445162

    kellyboy47
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    Oh I see I thought you had to purchase a subscription through The Times which £1 a month for first 3 months for a digital subscription. So is their subscription the same as the ‘Free Service’ given by local libraries ?

    #1445174

    chestnut
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    I assume you do not live in a London Borough MV

    #1445176

    kellyboy47
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    Yes I do… I live in Havering Borough but haven’t used the library service for some years

    #1445180

    Marginal Value
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    I do not know if subscriptions to The Times newspapers also give access to their archives. The archives I see through the library connection are facsimiles of every page from every published edition of The Times up to 2012.

    Chestnut – Have all the sophisticated, enlightened, techno-savvy London libraries disappeared, or do they not provide the same services that we country-bumpkins enjoy?

    #1445183

    chestnut
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    I tried the website of my library but could not find anything like you described.

    #1445221

    kellyboy47
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    I joined my local library today and tried to access the ‘Virtual Library’ but apparently they have removed newspaper resources from the ‘Virtual Library’….typical :negative: …so will have to pay a subscription to The Times themselves..not impressed !!

    #1445258

    Marginal Value
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    • Total Posts 631

    The nearest place that might have what you want is just across the Havering border in Essex. I have looked at Essex County Council website and if you follow from their home page: Home Page tab is “Residents”; scroll down to Libaries Online in the Popular Column (or just go to A-Z Services); on the Libaries Online front page click on References and Courses Online; on the next page click on Reference Materials; Click on View the News, Magazines and Current Affairs resources; scroll down to, and click on, Times Digital Archive 1795 to 2013 Available In The Library And At Home. That will take you to the database and you will be asked for your Essex Libraries number. All you have to do is go over the border to one of the essex libraries and join up. I phoned Essex Libararies just to check that you can join their Libraries even if your address is in Havering (or anywhere else) and was told that it is perfectly fine. You can join online but you will have to physically go to a library to pick up your Library Card with its all-important membership number. I hope it all works out OK for you.

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