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Interesting interview with Lord Teddy on the world at one this afternoon.
The final decision on Frankels future will be made at the weekend. He thinks he is likely going to retire, stud fee around £100,000. Got a good book of mares lined-up for the next few years!
Blimey £100k is pretty steep. Galileo’s fee was £30k early on in his stud career and was £120k in 2007 since when the fee has been ‘private’.
True, I think people will be buying into the unknown with Frankel as many of us don’t really know what makes him so good, yes he has a giant stride but many have had that before him and he’s far from the eye catching conformation that so many great stallions have preceded before but it’s that unanswerable question of what lies within the mentality that gives such a spirited animal a domination of his kind and if that trait is transferable then the breed could easily be improved into another dimension.
True, I think people will be buying into the unknown with Frankel as many of us don’t really know what makes him so good, yes he has a giant stride but many have had that before him and he’s far from the eye catching conformation that so many great stallions have preceded before but it’s that unanswerable question of what lies within the mentality that gives such a spirited animal a domination of his kind and if that trait is transferable then the breed could easily be improved into another dimension.
Best case scenario: He’s the next Ribot
Likely scenario: He’s the next Ormonde
Worst case scenario: He’s the next Cigar
I guess breeders will look at the prices Sea The Stars offspring are getting this year (think he is standing at 85K), and hope they will get a similar return with Frankel. However, to me it looks a bigger gamble and given Frankel’s obvious temperament there could be a few of them that will be unraceable.
It will be interesting to see what happens with Noble Mission and Bullet Train. At their likely stud fees they will offer better value for money for a very similar gene pool.
I guess breeders will look at the prices Sea The Stars offspring are getting this year (think he is standing at 85K), and hope they will get a similar return with Frankel. However, to me it looks a bigger gamble and given Frankel’s obvious temperament there could be a few of them that will be unraceable.
Dynaformer was downright vicious and as far as I know none of his get are so temperamental that they’re unraceable. Granted Dynaformer stood for
free
his first few years at stud until he started siring winners.
I don’t think that whatever temper Frankel has will impact his fee.The thing about Sea the Stars is that he happens to be a gorgeous horse with few obvious conformational flaws. I’m not sure that Frankel will have that going for him.
Agreed Miss Woodford.
What does everyone feel Frankel is going to give to his progeny and on what mares or sire lines would you use him?
Personally, I think he’s got ‘Supreme Novices’ written all over him.
Anyone?
No…?
Mike
Miss Woodford, you make a very interesting point about sires e.g. Dynaformer. He was so vicious he needed to be muzzled. Sunday Silence was another one who had a touch of viciousness in him and his sire Halo was just a headcase. Bit off a handler’s hand and a lot of others lost fingers. But the majority stock of Sunday Silence seemed to be relatively ”normal”. Frankel would be in the bottom 5% of temperamental horses based on Sir Henry’s thoughts.
This is the first indication I have read in the forum that Frankel was not a divine gift perfect in every way.Wooh!I never read before that he had a temper let alone a flawed conformation.Suddenly this god has feet of clay.Like the main thing he has going for him is that he can run faster than any other horse.That is enough for me if I had a mare and could afford to send her to him.If he delivers that to most,or many, of his get the world of racing will be the better for it.The fee takes into account the gamble on the future of his stock.The hopes and dreams rest with the first foals to race,they will determine the cost of the rest and the future fees.
I don’t think there has ever been any suggestion Frankel has vicious traits. He was quite highly-strung as a youngster but many thoroughbreds are and he seems to have settled. No temperament problems to pass on.
Without wanting to re-ignite an old and tired debate there is a question of where his stamina is when looking at suitable mares. Many stallions have had their stamina explored during their race career but with Frankel (assuming he wins on Saturday!) are you looking to inject more speed or use a more stoutly-bred mare to improve stamina. You might consider a Danehill mare, given the success of such mares with his sire, but might that produce too many 7f specialists?
I don’t think his temperament is an issue. St Simon, Ribot, Halo and Dynaformer were all nightmares, far worse than anything Frankel’s been accused of, and it didn’t do them any harm. On the other hand, Phalaris was notably easy to handle.
What may hold him back are statistics. Even at the highest level of racecourse performance, it’s still odds against a stallion being a positive influence on the breed. Think of Brigadier Gerard, Spectacular Bid, Citation and Tulloch, for example, all champions of the very highest order, most of whose offspring could hardly run fast enough to keep warm.
The rumoured fee of £100k reminds me that was Shareef Dancer’s stud fee for a while, look what happened to him.
I don’t think there has ever been any suggestion Frankel has vicious traits. He was quite highly-strung as a youngster but many thoroughbreds are and he seems to have settled. No temperament problems to pass on.
Without wanting to re-ignite an old and tired debate there is a question of where his stamina is when looking at suitable mares. Many stallions have had their stamina explored during their race career but with Frankel (assuming he wins on Saturday!) are you looking to inject more speed or use a more stoutly-bred mare to improve stamina. You might consider a Danehill mare, given the success of such mares with his sire, but might that produce too many 7f specialists?
A Danehill mare would produce something inbred 3×2 to Danehill. Coronation was inbred 2×2 to Tourbillon, she was a wonderful racemare but attempts at making her a broodmare ended in failure. It would be a dangerous and foolhardy match.
Seems that my use of the word temperamental may have been interpreted differently than intended. I was thinking of how hard he would pull in races (obviously he has settled down as he gets older) and if this is passed onto a horse of lesser ability then this where they could be difficulty. Confirmation aside his genetics is likely to be a bit of a mix so that the foal you get is less predictable than with some of the established sires.
I would look to speed lines, and where I think you could be more confident of producing a a good sprinter or miler. The trouble with the former is that they are currently less commercial. Using a stamina line mare will be more of a gamble if your aim is a 10 or 12f horse. That said I would expect Juddmonte to send him some of their good stamina line mares on the basis that they only need one special middle distance horse to come out of it.
I’ve already sent a hand written letter to Juddmonte Farms Ltd about a mare I hold in deep regards and how she would be a lovely fit for the prospective likes of Galileo & Frankel.
Her name, SCUFFLE.
Superb broodmare in the making.
I dont understand why he needs to be retired. The prince dosnt need the money and could easily wait another year. Frankel is the best horse he will ever have and can only get better next season. Why not just keep him in training for another year and his stud fee could go even higher. I dont see what he has to loose to be honest.
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