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I would still question why he needs to race again this season. It seems to me that Cecil is pushing to make him a Champion 2YO – for me he is that already. There is a fear that the more you see him this year the less you will see next year and that is the season that really matters.
He’s a racehorse, not a stall horse. I doubt this race took much out of him. Given that he’ll only run 5 or 6 times next year before they whisk him off to stud and declare him the best of all time (as some of you are already doing with the Sea-Bird comparisons), the least Cecil can do is show him off to a worldwide audience. By which I mean…
The Breeders’ Cup Juvenile Turf, 5 weeks of rest and the Churchill course is impeccable. Not like he has any real competition, it’s another notch on his resume should he flame out before the Derby. He even has a whole bucketful of excuses should he somehow lose! I don’t see a downside!
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Miss Woodford, you have a better chance of attracting
me
to run in that particular Donkey Race than of seeing Frankel in what is a meaningless blind alley of a contest, even by Breeders Cup standards. And that’s saying something.
Miss Woodford, you have a better chance of attracting
me
to run in that particular Donkey Race than of seeing Frankel in what is a meaningless blind alley of a contest, even by Breeders Cup standards. And that’s saying something.
I just want to watch him race live in person. I’m actually able to drive down to Louisville, Kentucky. As opposed to making the trip overseas.
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Wait for the Breeders Cup Mile on Turf next year, then – that will be your best chance of seeing him (or just possibly the Breeders Cup Classic over 10F, though the Galileo angle makes dirt unlikely.)
Why not visit Newmarket for our Guineas, though? You could visit the most wonderful Horse Racing Museum whilst you were here, and enjoy bracing early Spring temperatures and a wind straight off the Urals too, as well as some fabulously varied racing.
superb performance, but unsure of the quality of the opposition; keep the powder dry
Having got 33/1 for him to win derby bit worried about Cecil saying he might not stay the trip. do you guys think he will i hope so.
Tough one Darren! Frankel wins over a mile at 2,good sign he will stay,his sire Galileo has 11/2m written all over him,his Dam
Kind
holds the key to this horse,she was a 6f Sprinter bred from a stout staying pedigree,her Dam Rainbow Lake was an average 11/2m filly also trained by the maestro who in turn was sired by the legendary Rainbow Quest! Kind should never have been a sprinter but she could certainly hold her own! Frankel obviously gets his speed from his mother and his breeding could be the reason he looks a bit of a freak!For what its worth he looks like he could be a brilliant 2yo who fails to train on at 3,i would prefer to see him contest the Dewhurst rather than the Racing Post Trophy if he is a genuine Guineas colt,Vice versa if he"s a Derby horse! Personally i dont see him winning either as i just dont like the look of him,he"s got a square look about him and i can see hints of Royal Anthem! A horse who flattered to decieve and yet Willie Carson thought he was the 2nd coming! The Guineas would be a more realistic target than the Derby imo! He"s No
Workforce
!!
Personally i dont see him winning either as i just dont like the look of him,he"s got a square look about him and i can see hints of Royal Anthem! A horse who flattered to decieve and yet Willie Carson thought he was the 2nd coming! The Guineas would be a more realistic target than the Derby imo! He"s No
Workforce
!!
From a form point of view Royal Anthem was a considerably better horse than Workforce.
For what its worth he looks like he could be a brilliant 2yo who fails to train on at 3
On what basis have you come to this judgement?
Would be very interested to hear from Prufrock about the sectional times there. Seemed a slowly run first quarter, yet the time was very good if not exceptional.
The overall race time is not good for a wide-margin winner at this level – I went for 112 – but that is down to the slow early pace.
Both the Royal Lodge and the Fillies’ Mile winners got to 3f out at least 3 sec slower than Poet’s Voice did in winning the QE2. Time it yourself and you will see that is the case.
Your view of the merit of the overall time of these races may revolve in part round how high you believe horses like Red Jazz and Beethoven should be.
Nonetheless, taking all that into account, Frankel’s closing sectional was exceptional.
Personally i dont see him winning either as i just dont like the look of him,he"s got a square look about him and i can see hints of Royal Anthem! A horse who flattered to decieve and yet Willie Carson thought he was the 2nd coming! The Guineas would be a more realistic target than the Derby imo! He"s No
Workforce
!!
From a form point of view Royal Anthem was a considerably better horse than Workforce.
As Royal Anthem was winning the King Edward stakes at Royal Ascot beating Sir Michaels Killimanjaro neither of whom even ran in the Derby although the King Edward is recognised as a Derby failures race,
Workforce
was breaking the course record in the Derby!
Royal Anthems finest hour came in beating Sir Michaels Greek dance in the Juddmonte.Greek Dance never really got a 11/2m in the 98 Derby! Sir Michael wouldn"t put Workforce and Greek dance in the same field Euro!For what its worth he looks like he could be a brilliant 2yo who fails to train on at 3
On what basis have you come to this judgement?
He looks the finished article Stilvi,he is a strong looking 2yo but one who lacks scope physically,most 2yo"s with any class look like they will improve as 3yo"s,this fellow is so good now,i cant see where the improvement can come from,if you take todays form literally,he is only 31/2l better than White Moonstone and she will improve for a step up in trip and a Dubai winter on her back! Frankel will be remembered for being a brilliant 2yo who should win the Dewhurst before becoming Evens fav for the 2000gns. Then the bubble burst! Kentucky Derby? Now there"s a feasible target as he wont achieve a thing at 3 here imo!
As Royal Anthem was winning the King Edward stakes at Royal Ascot beating Sir Michaels Killimanjaro neither of whom even ran in the Derby although the King Edward is recognised as a Derby failures race,
Workforce
was breaking the course record in the Derby!
Royal Anthems finest hour came in beating Sir Michaels Greek dance in the Juddmonte.Greek Dance never really got a 11/2m in the 98 Derby! Sir Michael wouldn"t put Workforce and Greek dance in the same field Euro!You use two of Royal Anthem’s victims in an attempt to damn him with faint praise and yet when it comes to Workforce only his course record *stifles a yawn* is mentioned.
Here’s a challenge for you, name me the best horse Workfarce has actually beaten.
Would be very interested to hear from Prufrock about the sectional times there. Seemed a slowly run first quarter, yet the time was very good if not exceptional.
The overall race time is not good for a wide-margin winner at this level – I went for 112 – but that is down to the slow early pace.
Both the Royal Lodge and the Fillies’ Mile winners got to 3f out at least 3 sec slower than Poet’s Voice did in winning the QE2. Time it yourself and you will see that is the case.
Your view of the merit of the overall time of these races may revolve in part round how high you believe horses like Red Jazz and Beethoven should be.
Nonetheless, taking all that into account, Frankel’s closing sectional was exceptional.
The time of the QEII does lower the quality of Frankel’s overall time a little. However, I was really looking at the first quarter of the Royal Lodge which seemed very slow. ie The overall time was good considering the slow early fraction. Wondered if you timed the first quarter Prufrock.
Don’t think the form of the QEII is that great. First and third probably improved a little, but RIP well below form, Beethoven shade below his best or possibly running to form.
Value Is EverythingThe performance was an impressive run by a precocious 2yo, but I certainly would not be expecting Frankel to carry
that
level of form over to 2011. It was kind of
too
good to be true. I’ve seen too many ‘great’ 2yos fail to do it at 3 to jump the gun quite yet.
Lear Fan springs to mind, a monster run at HQ as a 2yo, but never truly lived up to it later on. Even if you come forward to a horse like Teofilo, another example of reasons to not go overboard about 2yo form. So much can happen over a winter, and 2/1 about the 2011 guineas, and 4/1 for the 2011 Derby is ridiculous really. Almost taking the urine.I think some of you while understandably cautious about claiming Frankel as the next Sea Bird, Nijinsky, Brigadier Gerard, are trying too hard to find fault in a colt that has put up astonishing performances back to back.
The very fact some of you are comparing his performance as perhaps a prospective Derby colt, after having only his third start in the Royal Lodge, with the all age Mile Championship race on the same card, too me, at least shows what a truly exceptional colt he is, and as for being only about 3 1/2 lengths better than the champion 2 year old filly means he must be pretty good.
The way he cruised past the field and then strode majestically clear was awesome. My hope is that he stays fit and well as I think he will be unbeatable over 8-10F and if we ignore the dam, there’s bags of stamina in the pedigree so an excellent chance will stay further.
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My hope is that he stays fit and well as I think he will be unbeatable over 8-10F and if we ignore the dam, there’s bags of stamina in the pedigree so an excellent chance will stay further.
It should also be noted that
Kind
(the dam) is a half sister to
Powerscourt
(who won the Great Voltigeur over 12F and showed Group 1 level form over that distance as well as 10F as an older horse); to
Unaware
, who was a middle distance handicapper up to 14F; and to
Brimming
, which Cecil trained to win middle-distance races, and considered good enough to run in the Goodwood Cup.
Kind
‘s dam,
Rainbow Lake
was also trained by Cecil. She was a high-class staying filly who won the Lancashire Oaks (12F) as a 3yo and started favourite for the Park Hill (14.5F) which was her last race.
Against all that we have Henry Cecil’s feeling that Frankel is unlikely to get 12F.
Kind
herself won a 7F maiden, though her two listed wins as a 4yo were over 6F. Whether she might have got further must remain conjectural, as she was never tested over a longer trip by her trainer Roger Charlton.
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Did Henry actually say Frankel wouldn’t get 10F? Amazing thing to say about a horse he has already got running over 1 mile who he claims is still a bit backward.
First off you have to get a horse of the bridle first or he’ll get any trip and we may never find one that can do that.
Breeding often points people in the wrong direction and the true Greats of racing are in the main freaks. I saw no signs that would indicate Frankel couldn’t have gone round the whole track yesterday and done a Secretariat to that lot behind him.
Canford Cliffs was so fast over 6f there were doubts about him and if he doesn’t get 10F next season I would be very surprised. Sea the Stars was so good over 10f a lot of people thought he wouldn’t get the Arc trip and he ended up doing better over the trip than he did 10f
I thought and still do think Saamidd was a brilliant looking horse who had 2000 Guineas written all over him but when you look at this Frankel he’s totally mindblowing.
Last year it was St Nicholas Abbey and Dunguib who were going to be the next Sea Bird II and the next Arkle but as we all know they both fell well short of expectations so people will doubt Frankel.
I don’t.
Royal Anthems finest hour came in beating Sir Michaels Greek dance in the Juddmonte.Greek Dance never really got a 11/2m in the 98 Derby! Sir Michael wouldn"t put Workforce and Greek dance in the same field Euro!
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