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I havent read this right through, but surely there are plenty of instances of horses hitting their peak more than once a season?
Just of top of my head Clivex
Borderslescott could be deemed one such animal
Also, any athlete will tell you that it is difficult to peak more than once in a season and then to hold on to that form. They build up and tail off and repeat the cycle next season.
Robert, Are you sure of that?
Sprints – Michael Johnson:
By the time of the 1996 Olympics, Johnson had won 54 straight finals at 400m and had not been beaten at that distance in seven years. He had no trouble in the Olympic final, winning by ten metres, the largest margin of victory in the event in 100 years. Three nights later, Johnson raced in the 200m final. At the U.S. Olympic trials, he had run a 19.66 to break the 17-year-old world record. In Atlanta, he ran a phenomenal 19.32 to defeat Frank Fredericks of Namibia by four metres.Middle Distance – Sebastian Coe:
Coe broke Rick Wohlhuter’s world record for 1,000-metres in 1980 with a time of 2:13.40, a time he managed to better in 1981 with a sterling 2:12.18. This world record for the kilometer would stand for the next 18 years. 1981 also saw him better the standard for the mile twice, first with a 3:48.53 in Zürich and then with a 3:47.33 in Brussels. The other world record Coe set that summer came in the 800 metre race in Florence in June. That world record of 1:41.73 in the 800-metres remained unbeaten until August 1997 when it was tied and then broken by Wilson Kipketer. As of 2007 Kipketer is the only person to have run the 800-metres faster than Coe. Coe’s record still stands as the UK record. To his two mile world records Coe also added a personal best of 3:31.95 in the 1,500 meters. He remained undefeated in both the 1,500 meters/mile and the 800 meters (including wins in the 1981 World Cup and European Cup). Not surprisingly, Coe was voted Athlete of the Year by Track & Field News magazine (an honour he had previously won in 1979).Marathon – Paula Radcliffe:
2001 World Cross Country Championships Ostend, Belgium 2nd Short Cross Country
2001 World Cross Country Championships Ostend, Belgium 1st Long Cross Country
2001 European Cup Bremen, Germany 2nd 5000 m
2001 World Championships Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 4th 10000m
2001 Bristol Half Marathon Bristol, England 1st Half Marathon
2002 World Cross Country Championships Dublin, Ireland 1st Long Cross Country
2002 London Marathon London, England 1st Marathon
2002 Commonwealth Games Manchester, England 1st 5000m
2002 European Championships Munich, Germany 1st 10000m
2002 Chicago Marathon Chicago, Illinois, U.S. 1st Marathon
2003 London Marathon London, England 1st Marathon
2003 World Half Marathon Championships Vilamoura, Portugal 1st Half Marathon
2003 Great North Run Tyne and Wear, England 1st Half MarathonAtheletes perform under more or less the same conditions, against more or less the same opposition
Athelets don’t run on GF one week, Good to Soft three weeks later, nor do they have some bloke sticking more weight on their back every time they run well
It is these differences in conditions, weight, opposition etc that are the major cause of the peaks, troughs, ripples, waves or whatever you want to call them in a horses form cycle
It is these differences in conditions, weight, opposition etc that are the major cause of the peaks, troughs, ripples, waves or whatever you want to call them in a horses form cycle
Throw in the health of the individual horse, the overall health of the stable, the trainer’s intentions, the jockey’s intentions, luck, etc., etc., for good measure – ‘form cycles’ my a**e. (Not intended as a poke at you Charlie.)
havent read this right through, but surely there are plenty of instances of horses hitting their peak more than once a season?
Just of top of my head Clivex
Borderslescott could be deemed one such animal
Of course Charlie. I was being a bit rhetorical really. Two obvious examples are Ouija Board who peaked continuously surely? And Kauto last season. Haydock might have been best performance but GC was close…
Not every animal is a Sublimity
Throw in the health of the individual horse, the overall health of the stable, the trainer’s intentions, the jockey’s intentions, luck, etc., etc., for good measure
More variables to be thrown into the mixer Scallywag imo
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havent read this right through, but surely there are plenty of instances of horses hitting their peak more than once a season?
Just of top of my head Clivex
Borderslescott could be deemed one such animal
Of course Charlie. I was being a bit rhetorical really. Two obvious examples are Ouija Board who peaked continuously surely? And Kauto last season. Haydock might have been best performance but GC was close…
Not every animal is a Sublimity
Clivex
Isn’t “peaking continuously” an oxymoron?
Kauto Star ran 10lb below his best when winning last season’s Aon, similarly Oiuja Board in her Eclipse behind David Junior.
There are form cycles, many of them trainer induced, and any who think they can ignore them is missing a valuable tool – imo, of course.There are form cycles, many of them trainer induced, and any who think they can ignore them is missing a valuable tool – imo, of course.
The fact that the level of form displayed by an individual horse can display a (sometimes) large degree of variability is beyond dispute. However, the attempt to attribute this to a single source, in this case the physiological capability of the horse in general, is nonsensical.
Yes, amongst other considerations, aspects surrounding the trainer need to be taken into account and to not do so is foolish.
Also, any athlete will tell you that it is difficult to peak more than once in a season and then to hold on to that form. They build up and tail off and repeat the cycle next season.
Robert, Are you sure of that?
Jim,
Yes, you may be confusing peak fitness and peak performance with winning events. A very superior athlete can win a whole series of relatively minor prep-races without over exertion but not often after the big race which he aims to peak for. So can a horse but a horse does not take to "overtraining" to maintain any peak and often loses muscular condition if it is attempted.
It has been exceptional for a horse to win a major race mid-season and then go on to win the Arc, for example. After the Ascot peak of 131 RPR 28 July, Dylan Thomas still won the Arc but with a lower performance of 127 RPR on 7 October which faded to 100 and 113 after the Arc in races the trainer at least though he might win. The current post race record of early season Derby winners etc is also abysmal.
"Athletic Peaking – USA advice to Olympic swimmers"
Athletic peaking, when you are in top shape, results in your best performances of the season. At this time fitness is at the highest level, while fatigue is at the lowest. This is the one time of the season that fatigue should in no way mask fitness. Your peak occurs when you are ready to perform at your best physically (fitness, skills, reactions…) and psychologically (strategy, focus, intent…). Peaking for sport is no accident, but rather the culmination of training, competitions, tactics and regeneration that has been planned for.
A peaking period can be as long as several weeks or as short as several days, so defining your peaking period and planning accordingly is critical. No new stimuli of any significant intensity should be introduced at this time, and training methods (psychological, physical, and technical) must be specific to the demands of competition. Complete regeneration of all required physical capacities; such as speed, strength, and power; is paramount. These levels should all be at their highest during a peaking phase. While volume most often drops significantly and rest periods increase during a taper, some portion of training intensity MUST remain high to facilitate peak performances. To maintain an extended peak, appropriate intensity must remain in your training at some level throughout the peaking period."
There are form cycles, many of them trainer induced, and any who think they can ignore them is missing a valuable tool – imo, of course.
The fact that the level of form displayed by an individual horse can display a (sometimes) large degree of variability is beyond dispute. However, the attempt to attribute this to a single source, in this case the physiological capability of the horse in general, is nonsensical.
Yes, amongst other considerations, aspects surrounding the trainer need to be taken into account and to not do so is foolish.
However, the attempt to attribute this to a single source, in this case the physiological capability of the horse in general, is nonsensical.
And who has ever claimed or attempted to attribute in this thread that there is a single source of causing performance variation?
If you could ever re-run races under exactly the same conditions there would still be performance variation and that would be more obviously from a result of different pace profile, tactic changes and the position of the horses in their fitness cycles.
If you could ever re-run races under exactly the same conditions there would still be performance variation and that would be more obviously from a result of different pace profile, tactic changes and the position of the horses in their fitness cycles.
And quite what has that to do with a ‘fitness or form cycle’? There is absloutely nothing cyclical about the draw allotted to a horse, or the pace that it encounters in a given race. The attempt to attach a simple label to a complex issue remains a farce.
The exploits of the phemonenon that was Michael Johnson, and more recently Asafa Powell and Jeremy Warriner, would indicate that comparisons between the ability of a horse and an athlete to perform at a peak level over a period of time are drawn somewhat unfairly.
Ignoring the fact that an athlete can alter their approach according to how fit they know they are, anatomical differences (metabolic rate, for instance) make the likening of horse and athlete utterly pointless. And humans are by no means confined to peak at any given point in time, whereas horses are highly sensitive to things such as the weather, and go through natural cycles regardless.
Would it not stand to reason though, with regard to the range of figures awarded to sprinters, that the seemingly disproportionate range of figures is merely a ‘phenomenon’ of such races? Any error in a sprint race – a slow start or loss of momentum, for instance – can be magnified due to the way races are run (faster relative pace etc), yet similar problems over staying distances can be rectified over a greater distance and at a far more sensible rate.
you may be confusing peak fitness and peak performance with winning events. A very superior athlete can win a whole series of relatively minor prep-races without over exertion but not often after the big race which he aims to peak for.
Robert,
No, that’s partly why I gave the Coe example, in 1981 he broke the world record for the 800m, 1000m, mile (twice) and returned a personal best for the 1500m … as well as winning a host of highly competitive (world ranking) races.
I know next to nothing about competitive swimming, but humans and horses are primarily land animals, with a physiology tuned to moving over land, rather than water, so I’m not sure if the advice to swimmers is fully relevant. That said, much of it seems both plausible and common sense.
Tribal Prince (8f horse) and Pinpoint (Ire, 7f horse) have never won a sprint race but are just one range step up in distance horses.
The variances of racecourse performance ranges according to Racing Post are:
Tribal Price:
OR 66-77
RPR 41-83
TS 0-88Pinpoint:
OR 85-111
RPR 74-116
TS 28-103Looking at performance range for two top sprinters:
Sakhee’s Secret (6f):
OR 93-120
TS 80-116
RPR 74-126Benbaun (5/6f):
OR 56-115
TS 27 -120
RPR 14 -125It is baffling how you would propose any conclusion that a performance variation of anywhere near 1 second, say a generous about16 pounds, would be exceptional using any of these horses as examples – the variations are huge from race to race. Also, any athlete will tell you that it is difficult to peak more than once in a season and then to hold on to that form. They build up and tail off and repeat the cycle next season.
It is not baffling it is in the nature of the sport that large differences in performance result from many identifiable factors. I didn’t say that large variations of form do not happen, on the contrary I said they stand out and are usually readily explained by reference to the characteristics of the horse. When horses have their conditions, and the humans (trainers and jockeys) don’t get in the way they are amazingly consistent.
Let’s take your examples –
Tribal Prince was a 7f horse who stayed an easy 8f. He needed fast ground. You would not be able to make any sense of his form unless you knew that he was intimidated by other horses and would not go through gaps. He was hit over the head with a whip bursting through a narrow gap on his two year old debut. So to run to form he had to have daylight and ideally be brought widest. You won’t find any form cycles because his trainer Peter Harris had him fully fit first time out each season, and kept him going at that level through the season. Whenever he had his ground and tactics he was very consistent over five seasons. Certainly well within the 1%.
Pinpoint has developed from modest beginnings into a Listed class horse.
He is effective from 7f to 10f, his best form so far being at 8-9f. He needs a strong pace and does well covered up in big field handicaps. He also needs a little ease in the ground and won’t let himself down on firm ground. Last time out he was third in a 10f Listed race. You will have no joy with a form cycles theory with him either. Given a strong pace he is admirably consistent. As likely to perform his best figures first time out (won Newbury Spring Cup 2007), as in mid season or in the autumn. To further understand him you need to know that he had bad feet and lives out in a field 24/7, that he is placid at home but always revved up on the racecourse.
Sakhee’s Secret steadily developed into the best sprinter in Europe. His poor run in the Haydock Sprint Cup was entirely due to the overwatered loose ground. He needs fast ground. Other than that he won all his races in 2007 from April to July. No form cycle there.
Benbaun is another of those sprinters who mature and improve all the way through to 6YO (eg Les Arcs, Soldier’s Tale, Desert Lord). He is best on fast ground and won four out of five races from May through to October proving very consistent, apart from one poor run in the King’s Stand. No form cycle there either.
If a trainer wants to train a horse so that it has a steady build up, peaks in mid season then tails off, that is useful information. But it is just a trainer characteristic. Important to know about for betting purposes and understanding form but nothing to do with the horses nature. With a share in Blackheath for six years I have seen it a first hand but don’t confuse it with anything to do with the horse.
I seem to have thrown the formatting of the page out of kilter with a photo or two just meant as a bit of light relief.
Apologies.
Jim
For Sebastian Coe’s superlative performances I would fall back on the "exception proving the rule".
His fantastic records lasted long until the Africans eventually bested them.
They use periodisation techniques to do that ie build up to one peak performance per year.Jim
For Sebastian Coe’s superlative performances I would fall back on the "exception proving the rule".
His fantastic records lasted long until the Africans eventually bested them.
They use periodisation techniques to do that ie build up to one peak performance per year.Robert, Fair enough.
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