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Quote: from thedarkknight on 10:44 am on Jan. 11, 2007[br]I struggle to see the difference between FOBTs and the  high turnover/low margin games like virtual games, casino games, poker etc – pushed not just by bookmakers, but also these days by the exchanges and indeed media groups like the Racing Post.
Why would anyone get on their high horse about FOBTs if they can tolerate all these other forms of gambling?
All of them are to the detriment of horse racing betting and thus, long term, horse racing itself.
<br>(Edited by thedarkknight at 10:52 am on Jan. 11, 2007)<br>
Probably in the demographics?<br>Unresearched figures I know, but probably half the population still do not have access to a computer 24/7.<br>Of that half, the only way they can freely access these eectronic rip-offs is on premises where they are licensed, which is, to most, their local bookies.<br>If you accept that this group will be generally drawn from the lower socio-economic strata, (Which I believe any unbiased observer would), then it is an entirely different market they are targetted at.<br>Leaving aside moral issues, the most worrying aspect of this, imo, is that horseracing draws much of its new blood from this source -witness the number who had their first bet on Hallo Dandy-and the cancerous leeches who support and promote this filth will, in the end, kill off not just not just those that they bleed white, but along with them, their own future!:angry:
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glenn, great, both put the readies in, perhaps the darkknight will be good enough to hold them.
rules, every racecourse in England monitored for one year every entrance covered, no annual badge figures estimated, just a tip royal ascot has 10 entrances opens 11am shuts 7.0pm dont want any cheating
tooting Posted on 11:26 am on Jan. 11, 2007 <br>How many people actually consider any gambling medium in terms of whether they are games of skill, or games of chance (or something in between)?
I’d say very few.
In fact, in my experience many people seem to get the games of chance/skill mixed up.  <br>
<br>.. Thats a really good point. I would like to add though … the closer the prices are to the outcomes, in a game of skill, the less like a game of chance it is. There comes a point when the take-out is so high that no matter how skillful you are you are playing a game of chance, like greyhound racing, Kempton Park and Bingo for example.<br>
Barry,
Do you want the bet or not? Every entrance at every course over a year wouldn’t be needed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the figure was below 44%. You seem to be running away by adding extra t&c’s – you don’t work for betandwin do you?
Glenn<br>Dont fancy checking them when they have the Gay Pride race day at Brghton!<br>You would be missing out on a few hundred if you just counted how many were wearing dresses at the turnstile.
Quote: from Seagull on 12:46 pm on Jan. 11, 2007[br]Glenn<br>Dont fancy checking them when they have the Gay Pride race day at Brghton!<br>You would be missing out on a few hundred if you just counted how many were wearing dresses at the turnstile.
:o<br>
(Edited by FlatSeasonLover at 3:19 pm on Jan. 11, 2007)
Perhaps racing should be doing more to explain what it offers as a betting experience that makes it more satisfying (and potentially more rewarding) than casino-type competition?
Great overall post Tooting but liked that bit
Its funny that a sport which is assumed to appeal mostly to thick hoorays and smelly betting shop life, requires quite a degree of mental capacity to follow and is rewarding for the very same reason
in fact it should appeal mostly the studious middle class professionals (you would think)
It should also appeal to those that want to watch some live sport which is not bedeviled with the worst aspects of the national team game and is a world away from the boneheadness of blindly following a team (ive been there…)
It should be seen as a sport you follow and punt on.
Royal Ascot is a fanny fest Barry, thats cheating!
"A fanny fest"? You mean there are plenty of ladies in attendance?
It’s political correctness gone mad.
Mike
I wonder has anybody been banned from their local bookies yet for being a persistent winner on the FOBTs?
Quote: from davidbrady on 9:13 am on Jan. 12, 2007[br]I wonder has anybody been banned from their local bookies yet for being a persistent winner on the FOBTs?
That would never happen.
Are FOBT’s allowed in pubs? They look like upmarket bandits to me but wonder if the local license people consider them something else?
Not sure Wallace but they don’t pay out money directly you need to take a piece of paper to a machine behind the counter where it’s scanned and then the money given that way. No idea if that influences pubs decisions/legal restrictions.
2006 report for the Scottish Executive – "Research on the Social Impacts of Gambling" :
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4.15  ….In the past two years, problems associated with a new form of<br>betting machine – Fixed Odds Betting Terminals (FOBTs) – a kind of remote<br>‘electronic roulette’ – have increased dramatically.
A recent, unpublished survey by Mintel for the Association of British Bookmakers has revealed dramatic increases in the use of FOBTs by problem gamblers (Europe Economics-Mintel 2006).
The research examined patterns of gambling participation amongst betting shop visitors, and found that, between 2004 – 2005, the use of FOBTs among problem gamblers had escalated from 12% to 40%…….this is a trend which should be watched closely.<br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/143770/0036514.pdf
<br>other extracts:
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3.31…. Although it is clear…that numbers of problem gamblers are<br>relatively small, they nevertheless account for a large proportion of gambling<br>expenditure (i.e. losses). Some studies have shown that between a third and a half of<br>casino profits come from this group (Lesieur 1998, Volverg 2001) while others have<br>demonstrated they account for a third of the entire gambling industry’s market (PC<br>1999)…………………………………
<br>4.9  Britain is slightly unusual in its distribution of problem gambling, since<br>almost every other country worldwide reports that the highest rates are associated<br>with electronic gambling machines (EGMs), where prevalence can be as high as<br>25% (Abbott & Volberg 2000; PC 1999). These rates are particularly associated<br>with machines that are located outwith casinos, i.e. dispersed in convenient<br>locations such as arcades, bars, and clubs and so on. This ‘convenience’ gambling<br>(or ‘ambient’ gambling as it was named by the Budd Committee), is the kind that is<br>most associated with impulsive and habitual play, and is of greatest concern to<br>policy-makers and treatment providers alike.
4.10   This is most apparent in Australia, where EGMs or ‘pokies’ were introduced<br>in large numbers in New South Wales and Victoria in the 1990s, and are now<br>widely dispersed in a range of locations throughout communities. This form of<br>gambling is by far the most problematic in that country.
…………….<br>4.12 …It has been suggested that these types of electronic machines tend to displace<br>other forms of gambling in terms not only of overall expenditure, but also of share<br>of problem playing. As one researcher put it, the great majority of problem gamblers<br>who appear in both community surveys and treatment settings worldwide report<br>having problems exclusively or primarily with gaming machines (Abbott, 2001).<br>EGMs are the fastest growing and most profitable sector of gambling markets:<br>between 70 and 80% of revenues come from them (Abbott 1999).
4.13   In addition, they have wide appeal. They are popular with young people,<br>already familiar with computer video games; with women, who can be<br>uncomfortable with more traditional casino table games; and with a range of more<br>traditional bettors, who may use them to fill in time between games at, for example<br>racetracks or in betting shops.
       Internationally, it has been found that where such machines proliferate, the distinctions between male and female rates of problem gambling have tended to decline, in a ‘feminisation’ of problematic behaviour…
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<br>For anyone not eating / about to eat – a positive FOBT for use in the home:
http://www.cancervic.org.au/cancer1/prevent/fobt.htm
<br>best regards
wit<br>
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