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But a horse can win the Haldon Gold Cup, the Tingle Creek, the Desert Orchid Chase, and the Chandler and still not be thougth of as a Champion unless he wins the Queen Mother Champion Chase at Cheltenham in March.
If Monet’s Garden had won the Ryanair Chase at the Festival, do you think he would have been acclaimed as the best 2m 4f horse last season, because despite winning the only 2 Gr1 chases at that distance during the season, that accolade was given to Kauto Star. THAT, IMO, makes a mockery of the "rest" of the National Hunt pattern season.
I do enjoy Cheltenham immensely… but I do feel that the NH game suffers because of the overwhelming importance of the meet
That it certainly does. Other meetings are also available!
gc
I never buy into this argument.
Firstly, I disagree with the assumption that "the Cheltenham target" in and of iself is a bad thing. I think it makes perfects sense to have a ‘championship’ at the seasons end.
Secondly, I disagree with the statement that other meetings are over-shadowed by the always-looming spectre of the Festival. The Open meeting, the Tingle Creek meeting, the Tripleprint meeting, the Hennessey meeting, the King George meeting, the Charlie Hall meeting, the BetFair Chase meeting, the James Nicholson meeting, the Christmas meeting at Leopardstown………………..to name just a few off the top of my head; all of these meetings (and many more I haven’t mentioned) stand-up entirely by themselves, with Cheltenham only a consideration after-the-fact.
I agree that Cheltenham is the apex of the season, and is rightly antipated by all. But it is always viewed (speaking for myself) in the context of the wider season. The Festival itself relies heavily on these other ‘supporting’ meetings – without them, the it would become an irrelevance.
I find it odd that others would view it any differently, to be honest, and maintain my suspicion that it is nothing but Flattie propaganda.
Perhaps I pay too much attention to the British media. Take Channel 4 for instance. Every half-decent NH race they cover seems to be viewed as a Cheltenham pointer.
Or perhaps I remember ‘ 01/ ‘ 02 too well : the whole NH season seemed to fall apart completely because of the demise of the festival.
But a horse can win the Haldon Gold Cup, the Tingle Creek, the Desert Orchid Chase, and the Chandler and still not be thougth of as a Champion unless he wins the Queen Mother Champion Chase at Cheltenham in March.
If Monet’s Garden had won the Ryanair Chase at the Festival, do you think he would have been acclaimed as the best 2m 4f horse last season, because despite winning the only 2 Gr1 chases at that distance during the season, that accolade was given to Kauto Star. THAT, IMO, makes a mockery of the "rest" of the National Hunt pattern season.
davidbrady, the only barometer of merit which counts is form displayed – not what fixture you won at.
You’ll find that Kauto Star won the 2m4f ‘title’ based on what he achieved in a handicap over that trip at Aintree in November. It had precisely nothing to do with his Cheltenham run – which rather blows a hole in your theory.ClintM, totally agree that the C4 Racing team are, with the odd exception, complete and utter muppets, when it comes to the Festival.
Perhaps I pay too much attention to the British media. Take Channel 4 for instance. Every half-decent NH race they cover seems to be viewed as a Cheltenham pointer.
That would be a different argument, perhaps – best-fit (or some might even say lazy) journalistic rhetoric. Just by way of an exercise, I’m sure if you went through the profiles of the winners of all the Cheltenham Festival races over the last 10 years or so, half of the races posited as "informative Cheltenham pointers" by C4 et al have proven to have had very little record of so being in practice.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Why bother grading races at all then if one performance in ANY race is deemed sufficient to crown a horse a champion.
But too many (and this will make Dandan go off on one now..) like Sublimity and Newmill last year have hopelessly one eyed campaigns
I don’t agree with the statement ‘too many’, clivex……………these horses are the exception rather than the rule……..
Have to agree. Jumps horses don’t have nearly as many runs per season as flat horses, mostly (I’d guess) beacause of the more testing distances and underfoot conditions over which they run their races. Also, if you think about it, with the NH season only getting into full swing in mid-November, you give your horse one race a month and you’ve still only had 4 runs before Cheltenham.
Why bother grading races at all then if one performance in ANY race is deemed sufficient to crown a horse a champion.
To elaborate further:
If we take the 4 horses he beat that day:
Armaturk – aging stable companion who ran OK next time out before failing to finish in 2 of his subsequent 4 outings while in the 2 he did finish he was beaten a total of 38 lengths
Inca Trail – an out-and-out stayer having his first run at that distance since a £5K Nov Ch at FOL 2 years previously. Also running from 18lbs out of the handicap that day
Nyrche – 1st and only chase at more than 17f. Beaten 30 lengths next time out before UR in his next race.
Mister McGoldrick – aging chaser beaten a total of 130+ lengths in his subsequent 8 starts last season.
Now don’t get me worng – Kauto Star was VERY VERY impressive at Aintree. But I still believe that he was crowned champion 20f horse not on what he did in the Old Roan Chase but on the basis of what he WOULD have done to that division if he had been campaigned at 2m 4f and not stepped up to 3m. You can’t tell me that Monets Garden or Taranis would not have demolished that field in the same manner as KS did.
DB, I agree wholeheartedly with your comments on KS being proclaimed a champion 2m4 horse. Merely running one race over the distance (even with achieveing the highest rating) is not sufficient for me. I simply diagnose this as a severe case of ‘Kauto Fever’.
IMO, you can’t really have a ‘Champion’ 2m4 horse at present because there simply aren’t enough top class races at that distance (only 2 Grade 1’s I can think of). The Melling Chase is about as close as we get to ‘Blue Riband’ 2m4 event, but even then it’s filled with 2m horses who can fancy a rematch after the Champion Chase.
Now don’t get me worng – Kauto Star was VERY VERY impressive at Aintree. But I still believe that he was crowned champion 20f horse not on what he did in the Old Roan Chase but on the basis of what he WOULD have done to that division if he had been campaigned at 2m 4f and not stepped up to 3m. You can’t tell me that Monets Garden or Taranis would not have demolished that field in the same manner as KS did.
davidbrady, you believe what you believe – thats fine.
But your basing your belief on what you think the handicappers think. In my opinion, it is perfectly reasonable position for the handicapper to figure Kauto Star’s Old Roan performance better than anything put up by Monets Garden or Taranis in the latest season.
You hold a different view, which is fair enough.
However, I fail to see what any of this has to do with the Cheltenham Festival?
Surely if Cheltenham did over-shadow everything else, we wouldn’t be debating a race which was run at Aintree in November, barely a month into the season proper?
The allocation of “Champions” is a completely subjective paper exercise, whose value lies in the debate it generates – and not with the gongs they hand out. It’s not really anything to get worked-up about.
Edit: ……………unless they are slating old Beefy, that is.
NH until about three years ago when I just ground to halt amidst the French imports, the dominance of the juggernaut stables Nicholls, Hobbs, Pipe and O’Neill and their sheer numbers, 4-y-o’s getting ridiculous allowances in Novice Chases, and the effect that the above had on altering the pattern of the season that I had been steeped in for 20 years; happily this has coincided with a new zeal for Flat Racing that I haven’t posessed since the late-80’s – I was almost choked when Authorized got beaten on Saturday as I honestly travelled to Esher expecting to see a champion being crowned.
won’t comment on the Flat pattern, as I am not familiar with it,
Grass
In a way, you need to because thats the comparison being drawn!
Lets just say that the big prizes are more evenly spread on the flat (derby or arc anyone?) Very few flat horses, if any, start the season primed for one race only. A lot of the appeal is seeing how they (and the form) develops.
Im not saying i prefer one code or the other particularly, but you have to admit that when a champion like Newmill is preped in the way he was, its all a bit deflating….
problem with the flat nowadays is there are so many group ones so horses (especially fillies) can avoid taking each other on.
great fillies like oh so sharp and bosra sham didnt have many group one filly races to run in so they had to take the colts on.
i much prefer jumping for what the horses achive and the excitment it gives me…even on the coldest of dayswon’t comment on the Flat pattern, as I am not familiar with it,
Grass
In a way, you need to because thats the comparison being drawn!
Lets just say that the big prizes are more evenly spread on the flat (derby or arc anyone?) Very few flat horses, if any, start the season primed for one race only. A lot of the appeal is seeing how they (and the form) develops.
Im not saying i prefer one code or the other particularly, but you have to admit that when a champion like Newmill is preped in the way he was, its all a bit deflating….
Clivex, the point is that the big prizes are distributed evenly throughout the Jumps season too. It’s the contention that they are not, and that the Festival is the only event that counts, that I take issue with.
I hear what you are saying about Newmill, but again, that kind of campaign is the exception rather than the rule. And anyway, its not like was left in his box until Cheltenham.
NH every day of the week – bored and fed up of the Flat racing already! Jeez, even the people in Flat racing are boring compared to the NH scene. A mate of mine commented recently "Roll on the Summer Plate" [at Market Raspberry] and I find myself agreeing wholeheartedly!
Already looking ahead to planning the weekend ‘on tour’ in Cheltenham in mid-November – bring it on!!!
problem with the flat nowadays is there are so many group ones so horses (especially fillies) can avoid taking each other on.
[b:2isxdsai]great fillies like [/color:2isxdsai][/b:2isxdsai]oh so sharp and [b:2isxdsai]bosra sham[/color:2isxdsai] [/b:2isxdsai]didnt have many group one filly races to run in so they had to take the colts on.
i much prefer jumping for what the horses achive and the excitment it gives me…even on the coldest of daysGreat is an understatement…
As a spectacle it has to be NH for me. Nothing quite like the atmosphere generated at The Cheltenham Festival.
But nothing in racing compares to seeing a top class thoroughbred in the flesh. However, no horse quite took my breath away like Best Mate.
Well I look forward to every Saturday afternoon in winter but only about one in four or five in summer when the flat dominates.
I`d be more interested in the flat if there were a few less bookie sponsored sprints being dressed up as a big event. You get the likes of Dandy Nicholls and Milton Bradley with about half the field between them, some of the horses running every couple of days. Not my type of race although it does throw up some seasoned campaigners.
On the other hand I enjoy middle distance and stayers type races where some of the horses actually stay in training and build up a following a bit like some of the jumpers ( eg the recently retired Day Flight).
I don`t see the Cheltenham Festival as the be all and end all – greatest meeting though it is.
Sadly there are too many grim days with fatalities in NH but I think there is a move for courses to do all they can to make it safer. It annoys me to hear continued talk of ‘trappy fences’ though- they should be a thing of the past.
PS Don’t like the all weather or the cross country races beloved of Punchestown and Cheltenham.
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