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Eddie –
I haven’t ‘invited’ posts from him – I’ve said if he emails me anything on the whip debate he’d like to put on the forum I’d post them. Primarily to ensure people weren’t able to state that I’d simply banned Pinza from TRF because of our opposing views on the whip.
Now, can you get on with discussing racing, stop bringing up the pointless subject of Pinza just to cause aggro, stop referring to fellow forumites as ‘you twit’ and stop referring to TRF as ‘drivel’. If it continues you KNOW it is just going to get you into bother with me. Thank you EC.
As you have even previously conceded yourself, disqualification is a total non starter for a variety of reasons. Integrity, corruption, impact on betting, the punishment would not fit the crime.
I only conceded disqualification could be an issue for integrity and corruption.
I have never said it is an issue with betting – quite the reverse – non-disqualification is a bigger issue for betting.
The punishment would fit the crime – if a horse wins by breaking the rules that is palpably unfair.
Comparisons with football are, I would suggest, irrelevant as they cannot be compared.
Football is a morally corrupt sport where cheating is endemic and actively encouraged. If you want racing to reach that level of moral bankruptcy then you have a different approach to the sport than me.
Just because football is happy to condone cheating it does not mean other sports have to follow suit.
Eddie –
Now, can you get on with discussing racing, stop bringing up the pointless subject of Pinza just to cause aggro, stop referring to fellow forumites as ‘you twit’ and stop referring to TRF as ‘drivel’. If it continues you KNOW it is just going to get you into bother with me. Thank you EC.Easy Tiger! ‘Twit’ is hardly offensive and ‘Drivel’ is what i’m accused of writing all the time by reet hard.Your views on the whip are the complete opposite of mine and others including Eddie,you have those who agree with your ideas and there are those of us who dont,i think that has made great debate on here,particularly as we are united as Horseracing fans but divided as such too incredibly.Tense times for us all and the most frustrating point of all is how is this whole issue ever going to be resolved?
Can’t help but feel that the Animal Rights people are rubbing their hands with glee at the moment. They’ve lit the blue touch paper and are watching us slowly combust from within.
I’d also add that I didn’t think it was a ‘great ride’ from Coleman at all. I thought he looked clumsy at best. If anyone gets pleasure out of watching a ride like that then I’m afraid we’re on different planets. Not only was he hitting when he should have been riding, several of his smacks were also poorly aimed. One in particular seemed to hit the horse on the back (and it didn’t look to be the end of the whip that made contact either) as he was flailing a bit IMO, probably out of tiredness/desperation.
I cannot understand why people put up rides where the jockey simply thrashes the horse home as indicative of a ‘great ride’.
It was a crap ride. He looked ungainly, broke the rules and lost his share of the prize money. Brilliant stuff.
Spot on. AC is one of the more over-rated riders around at present. Anyone who follows the Venetia Williams yard will have noticed that the past 2 seasons, and this one, have been distinctly average by comparison to previous years. Who has been stable jockey in that period? Coincidence? Maybe, but I know of at least 4 owners with horses there who are far happier when Sam Thomas or Liam Treadwell ride for them and there are others who get more than slightly miffed when, as yesterday, the stable jockey chooses to go off and ride something else when their horse is running.
I write in support of Cormack.
I think its about time certain forumites started treating others with differing views with a bit more respect and stopped reverting to childish insults. You know who you are !.
This is the best and most interesting forum that there is on horse racing. It would be a lot worse if it ceased and we had to go elsewhere.Im sorry Corm, I think it
is
crippled. Not irrevocably though, it can be fixed. You have the best jocks saying how "very, very embarrassed" they are for our sport and jocks actively encouraged by the sport’s governing body to ‘throw in the towel’ when they can still win the race. They say they are doing what they can to stop cheating, then give the cheats the very tools they need to continue their fiddling.
A ban for Coleman and loss of winnings amounting to £2500.
That can’t be right. It seems a terribly harsh penalty for trying your best.
They should hand out those fines for non triers not the other way about.But he didn’t try his "best". Had he tried his best he’d have kept within the rules.
If the rules were coherent on a 440yd run in at Aintree i’m sure he would have kept within the rules. These arbitrary rules are as far from coherent as they can be.
You either want jocks trying to win, or you don’t. Which is it GT?I want jockeys to try to win by keeping within the rules RD.
Coleman misjudged the ride, using up the whip allowance too soon. Should have pushed and cajoled the horse instead of so many early whip strokes. That is all part of jockeyship nowadays.
If a jockey breaks the rules he deserves punishment. 11 strokes deserves severe punishment.
Jockeys know the limits, no excuses.
Value Is EverythingIm sorry Corm, I think it
is
crippled. Not irrevocably though, it can be fixed. You have the best jocks saying how "very, very embarrassed" they are for our sport and jocks actively encouraged by the sport’s governing body to ‘throw in the towel’ when they can still win the race. They say they are doing what they can to stop cheating, then give the cheats the very tools they need to continue their fiddling.
Which jockeys said they were "very, very embarrassed"?
How are they "encouraged by the sport’s governing body to "throw in the towel"?
Value Is EverythingSo much drivel on here, no wonder Pinza left.
Some, Gingertipster, cormack, steeplechasing all consider themselves far better jockeys than either Carberry or Coleman, maybe they should get their licences out.
Gingertipster says "A tight finish over an extreme trip on heavy ground. Something some "real" racing fans said would be a thing of the past
"Didn’t one of the jockeys break the stupid whip rules you twit
Like Cormack, I do not consider myself a "better jockey" than anyone. But that does not stop me commenting on any ride. I am a form expert and know a fair bit about the sport. Is it wrong for C4’s Jim McGrath to give any jockey criticism? He’s never ridden in a race. Is it wrong of Timeform to criticise any ride in their form books? "You xxxx" EC
. Are you a jockey EC? I notice it hasn’t stiopped you from giving an opinion about the rides. How do you know these rides were good rides if you are not a jockey? "You xxxx". All those experts the BHA used in their "Review" and yet you Eddie, believe YOU know better than all their experts. Yet I do not turn around and ridicule you, or anyone else for doing so. It’s a complex subject and everyone should come to their own opinion.
Yes, one jockey did "break the
stupid
whip rules you xxxx", but that didn’t stop a horse who kept well within the new "
stupid
whip rules" from being in that close finish with him. "You xxxx".
Value Is EverythingSo much drivel on here, no wonder Pinza left.
Have you ever thought of being a spin doctor?
Wasn’t Pinza banned from the forum?
Has he not vociferously protested against said banning – I don’t think you can really re-write history to try and suggest Pinza "left" the forum of his own volition.
Can’t help but feel that the Animal Rights people are rubbing their hands with glee at the moment. They’ve lit the blue touch paper and are watching us slowly combust from within.
Do you really think the change is significant enough for the Animal Rights people to claim some sort of victory, Moe? I’d have thought they still think horses are being tortured on a daily basis!
And if they think the sport will combust from within over the issue, then they couldn’t be more wrong.
Can’t help but feel that the Animal Rights people are rubbing their hands with glee at the moment. They’ve lit the blue touch paper and are watching us slowly combust from within.
Do you really think the change is significant enough for the Animal Rights people to claim some sort of victory, Moe? I’d have thought they still think horses are being tortured on a daily basis!
And if they think the sport will combust from within, they couldn’t be more wrong.
They were outside Aintree yesterday – a very sad looking mob.
Like Cormack, I do not consider myself a "better jockey" than anyone. But that does not stop me commenting on any ride. I am a form expert and know a fair bit about the sport. Is it wrong for C4’s Jim McGrath to give any jockey criticism? He’s never ridden in a race. Is it wrong of Timeform to criticise any ride in their form books? "You xxxx" EC
. Are you a jockey EC? I notice it hasn’t stiopped you from giving an opinion about the rides. How do you know these rides were good rides if you are not a jockey? "You xxxx". All those experts the BHA used in their "Review" and yet you Eddie, believe YOU know better than all their experts. Yet I do not turn around and ridicule you, or anyone else for doing so. It’s a complex subject and everyone should come to their own opinion.
Yes, one jockey did "break the
stupid
whip rules you xxxx", but that didn’t stop a horse who kept well within the new "
stupid
whip rules" from being in that close finish with him. "You xxxx".
Gingertipster,
Of course it is not wrong to criticise a ride but it is plainly ludicrous to do an in depth analysis of every whip stroke of a ride, don’t think even Jim McGrath would do that.
ie
Steeplechasing – "Carberry only hit his horse 6 times so if he thought another two would have helped he had them in reserve"
"Coleman, his final 2 strokes made no difference, the horse didn’t seem to quicken nor was he showing any signs of giving in".How would you know that sat in your armchair?
cormack – "Several of Colemans whip strokes were poorly aimed, one even hit him on the back"
How did the stewards miss this when they analysed Colemans ride through a fine tooth comb?
Gingertipster – It’s also questionable whether hitting the horse so many times actually helped Stewarts House, Linnel ran on better when he put the whip down".
How did the stewards miss this when they analysed Colemans ride through a fine tooth comb?
They may have given him benefit of doubt – him having already lost his percentage and incurred a ban, but if you doubt me watch it over.
How did the stewards miss this when they analysed Colemans ride through a fine tooth comb?
They may have given him benefit of doubt – him having already lost his percentage and incurred a ban, but if you doubt me watch it over.
Judging by the length of time the enquiry went on I’m sure they picked up on it – the enquiry went on a very long time
Pinza is now combining twitter with a blog – probably the future anyway and a format that will allow his musings a wider audience.
Anyway Pinza’s views on this subject are here:
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