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I cant stand horse races like that!!! It annoys me so much when you dont get a fair effort!
Value Is EverythingSpot on Ginge. It reminded me a bit of when Light Shift won the Oaks and Peeping Fawn got there a furlong out but couldn’t go past. Harland outstayed the runner-up. Idaho ran much better than I thought and I think WOD ran well on ground that wouldn’t have suited. The rest were nowhere.
You would remind me of that Joni. 😥
Had massive prices about Peeping Fawn that day, win only if I remember rightly. 😆
Value Is EverythingAh well, I got the right owner, trainer, jockey even the right sire. Just the most important bit wrong, the horse. So much for the Leger Mr Weld!
Even done me on the day of the race, backed the 2nd! Haha
I picked Harzand based on his pedigree, a solid Cleaboy bottom line with heaps of stamina and minimal Northern Dancer. He also had the quirky coarse head from Phase which indicated he had thrown to that line. The fact there was a bit of give in the ground helped him.
I would think US Army Ranger could turn the tables at the Curragh if the race hasn’t taken too much out of him. That could be a problem for a number of the immature unexposed runners, the Derby can take a lot out of young horses.
Winner should do well at the stud as he will be an out-cross, even though his top line is ND he doesn’t have any crosses. Be interesting to see if Minding visits him in time, she’s from a different Cleaboy family.With US ARMY RANGER it reminded me of dancing brave when he was second in his derby, clearly the horse has a huge amount of ability and must be a big player in races like the King George and Arc.
You need to learn mate that Ryan Moore is the best jockey in the world, which means he never makes mistakes. It was the horse’s fault, just as A P McCoy said on Channel 4. Whatever possessed Graham Cunningham to question why the horse was held up out the back is beyond me – given the time he would probably try to confuse us with some sort of nonsense that being by Galileo out of a Dalakhani Irish Oaks winner his abundant stamina should have been made more use of. Poppycock! How dare he have the temerity to even imply criticism of the best jockey in the world.
All that baloney you may have read about Lester Piggott nearly always being handy at Tattenham Corner is, well, just baloney. Trust us mate, Ryan Moore is THE best jockey that has ever lived, and simply does not make mistakes – after all if he did, all of the racing broadcasters would put us right, not to mention the posters on here.
Both the Oaks and Derby seemed very similar in that a relatively small number of horses were involved at the business end and nearly all were held up. I don’t do stats but is this the usual run style for a soft ground Epsom? I think everyone could see Port Douglas went too hard (on that ground presumably they knew he couldn’t win whatever he did) but it wasn’t as if the rest of prominent racers sat on his tail. The eventual gap to the fifth might give some hope that the form is reasonable but I wouldn’t bank on it.
Where do people think Minding would have finished if she’d run today instead of in the Oaks?
I think it’s hard to argue that the best horse on the day didn’t win the race. But I’m sure plenty on here will continue trying.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Well I’ll try and argue in US ARMY RANGERS favour…
Think the winner was a worthy winner but US ARMY RANGER had to make a huge move in the home straight which must have took some energy out of him as he flattened out in the final furlong.. winner however was pulling away right at the end so an exaggeration to say the second was an “unlucky loser”
The front three have pulled clear of the fourth who is a solid animal so think there are solid arguments for saying the top three are all top classs
Think Minding would have finished up there but impossible to say if she had won or not… generally speaking colts are just that bit better (not always of course) which you could see in the Coronation cup today as the two top class fillies firmly put in their place by the winner.
Been a good couple of days for me, even though Harzand was only a back-up bet and my main fancy Deauville completely flopped. Can’t complain after Minding’s double yesterday as I’ve been on a bit of a poor run of late.
Thought the winner won today because he was well just more of a winner. US Army Ranger still had the time to get past him and even got to half a length before Harzand pulled away from him again. It is indeed possible that US Army Ranger used a bit more energy in coming from so far back the field, but personally I felt that he just didn’t want to be in front a bit like he did idling at Chester. I think US Army Ranger probably possess the more natural ability out of the two and may well reverse the form with more experience, but I can’t have Harzand as an ‘undeserved winner’ today. I think he won because he just showed a better winning attitude.
I actually think sometimes these things like Forums are a bad thing
Basically a lot about being a gambler is just trusting your gut instinct
When you are going on forums and tossing ideas around and so on you can end up confusing yourself… like this whole thing about the winner not handling the track… can anyone give a specific horse that didn’t win an oaks or derby because it didn’t handle the track?
Another load of old cobblers is the benefit of the draw
In future I will be putting more store in visual impressions and not overanalysing too much with garbage about speed ratings, breeding, trainers comments and so on
You could have a point there. I haven’t looked at the Derby thread for over a week. Who knows if I’d backed the winner if I had sifted through all this. Again hadn’t really looked at the race in detail. Just saw soft still in the going and thought Harzand. Smullen on board cemented my choice
The 2nd lost the race when idaho kicked for home around 3 furlongs out. He lost a few lengths to the front two and did remarkably well to get as close as he did. The ground also helped the winner and I’ve no doubt if the race hasn’t left a mark he will handsomely reverse the form at the curragh. The winner looks to have improved from his last run but us army ranger took a massive step forward from the Chester Vase so I expect he is the best horse. Btw I wouldn’t rule out idaho going very close at the curragh. He is yet to run on good ground and he was holding Harzand but as in the Ballysax he couldn’t quote finish on the ground. Should be a fascinating Irish derby and we should get a proper run race and may the best horse emerge. At the moment I feel it is the runner up. Definitely shades of dancing brave but he is a long way off from that horse although he looks like he will only improve with racing.
It’s a race where a jockey probably decides beforehand how he is going to ride it. So many jump out to try and get a pitch that the first 4 or 5 furlongs are probably run at a false pace. Then, when everyone settles, so does the pace for a while, and, as they slow, there’s often scrimmaging. Moore decided not to get involved in trying to thread through and perhaps the extra ground covered was no disadvantage versus what might have happened had he stayed in the pack. We’ll never know.
Moore began his run in good time but his mount was never balanced and his constant hanging interrupted his momentum, though he seemed all too ready to duck in behind the winner and when pulled out again didn’t look to have much heart for a battle. It could have been inexperience or tiredness, though he took a fair bit more pulling up than the winner and he passed him after the post with ears pricked.
The winner should surely be marked up given his foot trouble this morning. He showed a fine attitude and it’s likely he’s still improving. He didn’t look to have a hard race. He has plenty stamina, won’t be risked on fast ground and the Arc, where he’s highly likely to get his ground, looks an obvious target. Ladbrokes 12/1 looks very attractive.
It looked a mediocre renewal to me. Of course everyone involved in the media and the connections always try to make it sound like the best thing since sliced smokescreen.
First comment that needs to made is not to compare US Army Ranger with Dancing Brave. That’s complete heresy and the Brave would have torn the Ranger a new one.
There were no excuses, the best horse on the day won. It’s not as if US Army Ranger had ever shown lightning pace. He has been aimed at races that very much suggested stamina was his game and he just wasn’t quite up to it today.
Frustratingly for me, Idaho has now twice swept into the lead in a race and then been collared by Harzand. Today US Army Ranger wore him down as well but he did manage to see off the disappointing Wings Of Desire by five lengths.
John Gosden stated that Wings Of Desire had come forward by a long way from the Dante but I don’t believe he ran to the Dante rating today. The cut in the ground was blamed but I still have a suspicion it wasn’t that great a Dante. The trainer took Deauville’s finishing position as evidence that Wings Of Desire had progressed but that colt ran woefully and O’Brien has always said the horse needs faster ground.
Port Douglas was never at the races to win today. Punters knew their fate as he adopted the sacrificial lamb role at the head of affairs, clearly and blatantly not running on his merits. Numb nuts Barzelona decided to follow him on Cloth Of Stars and his race was over after half a mile. On Pour Moi, Barzelona made an ass of himself at the finish, this time he did it at the start. Just a waste of a supplementary entry fee.
Whoever had the idea to do features on Jim Bolger and his Classic runners must be feeling a bit of a bosom now. We sat through endless praise for the handler and how he “Wouldn’t swap mine for anything else in the race” only for both contenders to run like scabby donkeys. Sod’s law I suppose but I felt punters were getting a bum steer with the stable form being what it has been leading up to the Epsom meeting. The Racing Post had Turret Rocks running 75 below her rating yesterday and Moonlight Magic was given a rating 72 below his best today.
I felt Harzand was a mudlark and I made a comment some time ago about the race where he won by 16 lengths in Somme like conditions. I swear there were fox holes, bomb craters and sentries in trenches on parts of the course that day but there was enough juice in it for him to do the business today. I believed he was a St Leger horse but he’s too good to be aimed there now and we will probably see the usual 2nd and 3rd rate horses at Donny in September. Which is just as well for me, as I have picked that type of horse for the final classic of the season.
I think it’s hard to rate the winner that highly today. The Racing Post have rated Harzand 124, US Army Ranger 122 and Idaho 119.
On these ratings it means US Army Ranger is a full stone up from his official rating of 108 going in and Idaho has gone up 11lb from the same official mark coming into this. Harzand also goes up a stone from his 110 mark and that seems to be stretching the quality in my first consideration of today’s race.
The Racing Post had Wings Of Desire running to 111 today, 5lbs below his Dante effort. Of the ratings the one I have most problem with is Idaho. He’s only a maiden winner thus far and I am a little sceptical he improved 11lbs today in what was a “muck and nettles” showing from the Ballydoyle team.
One thing is for sure, why is Shogun running in these races? He looks a million miles short of the required standard and hurdles would be my next move for him.
Ulysses came with a big pedigree, big stable confidence, big reference to past winners from the stable. Big, big, big…..there had to be another big and there was….he was a big disappointment. Well, at least his SP was small 😉
On Racing Post ratings, Minding would have lined up rated 126 with her allowance and in theory would win it. Given her troubled run, she would surely be worth a little more but these things are impossible to call.
Well done to Harzand fans, he was way short for me today and ante-post I couldn’t see him running due to the liable ground on the day and the nature of the track.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
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