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Just 500? Was hoping for more.
Think the family is good but no real superstars (bar sariska)
They are just very solid, very good horses and Wings of desire falls into the category.
I don’t know how much stock you guys put into clock times and sectional timing, I don’t know much about it myself but it’s definitely interesting – Simon Rowlands piece for Timeform suggests that the Dante may not have been as poor a race as people think.
Regards,
ConorMost of the runners look bred to stay this year which is unusual. Is that why people think they are donkeys? A staying horse can quicken, Wings of Desire did quicken, he wasn’t just staying on whilst the others ran out of steam.
Just because Eagle Top isn’t reliable doesn’t mean his brother is like wise. There have been many half brothers and sisters of classic winners who were jadey. Wings of Desire looked resolute in what was only his third time out. To me the animation of Gosden says a lot, he doesn’t big up his horses and say “listen he’s the best I’ve trained” like some. My doubt would be how he acts at Epsom, he looks a big heavy topped colt and the camber and gradients may not be to his liking; he’s having a racecourse gallop there.Oh PLEASE Aiden – let him run in the Derby!!! Pretty please!!!!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Agreed Stevie – a very unsatisfactory race again today. I know I keep banging this drum but did you notice how close Saafaar finished to them? Beaten 3 lengths having cut out all the early pace. The Gurkha destroyed him by 9 lengths. I promise you, if there is a 3 year old superstar at Ballydoyle with balls, I am sure it is The Gurkha. It’s just whether they see him as a middle-distance horse.
Get in!!!! Ladbrokes going 3’s – a good sign I hope.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Agreed Stevie – a very unsatisfactory race again today. I know I keep banging this drum but did you notice how close Saafaar finished to them? Beaten 3 lengths having cut out all the early pace. The Gurkha destroyed him by 9 lengths. I promise you, if there is a 3 year old superstar at Ballydoyle with balls, I am sure it is The Gurkha. It’s just whether they see him as a middle-distance horse.
Get in!!!! Ladbrokes going 3’s – a good sign I hope.
Let’s hope so Joni – I’ve a disastrous ante post book on the Derby and the Gurkha is my only decent play now until the day. Let’s hope they send him over
If only betbright had accommodated the 33’s they had on offer after Navan.
I was too stubborn to take the 16’s…………
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Surely the way The Gurkha streaked away from the opposition you’d have to have serious doubts about him getting a mile and a half
Won’t get home in a horsebox for me
There is a debate going on at bet fair forum looking into TG pedigree. Well I call it a debate…..it’s probably a impolite row. Not the TRF way for most.
Who was the last Derby winner that won at a mile and went on the Derby?
Forgive me folks..my first Derby that I took any notice in was Ruler of the World. That doesn’t reflect my age by the way
There could be a superstar in the Derby in the shape of THE GURKHA, and WINGS OF DESIRE could
be on a big upward curve. However, at 4/1 or 5/1 I’m not sure I’m convinced enough by either to
take those odds. Admittedly they may seem huge on the day, but The Gurkha has yet to prove he
will get the trip in the Derby and Wings of Desire, very good horse that he obviously is, won
well enough in the Dante, winning by a neck form Deauville, but hardly a crushing of the field
pulling clear by 5. For all the slating that he got, I think that FOUNDATION, beaten just over
1 1/2L, didn’t run as badly as the result suggests. He was given, IMO, not the best of rides by
Willian Buick, managing to get into all sorts of bother, and not seeing daylight till late on. I
don’t think that Foundation is likely to head to the Derby now, but my point is that I don’t think
that Wings of Desire is as far ahead of Foundation as the betting suggests.With all that taken into consideration, if I’m looking for something which looks a more solid chance,
I think that MOONLIGHT MAGIC fills that bill pretty well. I know he was given a positive
write up some time back by Darren and TAPK, I think they must be quite happy with the way things have gone.I had been waiting to see if there was anything better than the 12/1, which has been top price for a while
now, and noticed that Paddy Power have pushed him out to 14s today. Jim Bolger doesn’t run off at the mouth,
so when he said after his Derby Trial win at Leopardstown that he was “a proper Derby horse”, that speaks
volumes. The son of Cape Cross, closely related to two Derby winners in Galileo and Sea The Stars, has all
the right credentials to be a Derby winner and at 14/1 he is the value in the race for me.The worry about Moonlight Magic is how good the Derrinstown was.
The jockey bookings were all over the shop and Shogun performed the best of O’Brien’s entries.
For all that Shogun has bits and pieces of form, he’s been exposed as a fair bit short of class on several occasions. He has only ever won a maiden race, which, amazingly, hasn’t thrown up a winner in 42 attempts since. The horse has also had headgear on and off in his career and he’s hardly a solid yardstick.
Idaho didn’t get the best of rides in the Derristown and I have always felt that Beacon Rock lacks pace at this level and distance. Aidan hasn’t had a good looking colt other than The Gurkha so far, and, potentially US Army Ranger although he is more talk than substance for now.
Jim Bolger is a leading trainer but he’s hardly been a regular at Epsom in terms of Derby wins and generally has had it pretty lean the past couple of seasons.
I can see the appeal but also some negatives, with stamina not assured in my opinion.
Not many make much appeal and I will probably end up with something on Wings Of Desire. Cloth Of Stars is probably my only ante-post chance now that Foundation and Idaho are out of it and unlikely respectively.
The Gurkha is improving quickly and reminds me of Magician who dropped in trip successfully after initially looking more of a stayer. I would agree that his ability to win easily at a mile makes one question whether he’ll be as effective over another half mile at group 1 level.
A tricky Derby to call but Wings Of Desire could improve another 10lbs in my opinion and become rated between 123 and 125 if he wins this Derby. Those figures would seem enough this season.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
I’m surprised so many people are overlooking deauville in the Derby. He look like he was coming back at wings of desire at the end and as it was his first run of the season he will I’m sure have loads of improvement in him as aiden has said he wasn’t rushing his horses in the trials. Also deauville looked a well balanced horse who will handle Epsom much better than wings of desire. The derrinstown was a mess of a race and I wouldn’t be surprised if idaho reverses the form as he was given far too much to do. The vase form still looks very good to me and it seems whoever improved most in the run up to the derby will win. Cloth of stars definitely has a chance and his trainer knows the score. The ghurka is the imponderable in the field and should he stay will take all the beating. There you go,the derby sorted. Still no nearer getting the winner.
The ghurka looks the potential superstar in the field but I hope he skips the derby till we see how he does over ten furlongs. Just watched him winning again and that was stunning. Forget how close first selection was as it was a dawdling pace in an a truly run race he would beat that horse by a lot further. I hope the lads see sense but as usual boss man magnier will have the final say. I wonder what aiden would do if he had the choice.
Ok so here’s a prediction for you. The Gurkha will be the highest rated Galileo after Frankel.
Only 3 runs and he produces that yesterday. There is bags more to come. Yes the big question is will he stay the mile and a half? Well there are so many positives about this horse that makes me think he can and makes me think that they will definitely aim him at the race if nothing else.
1. His temperament – notice how calm he was yesterday before the race when he spread a plate. Many of the others got hot but TG took it all in his stride. Then in the race itself he travelled like a dream, settled despite being caught on the outside and did everything very easily. All these qualities will be vital in the cauldron of Epsom on Derby Day and even more vital if he is going to stay. “Tractable” is the word they use isn’t it?
2. His action. He is beautifully balanced and handled the undulations of Navan without any problems. Epsom will hold no fears.
3. His class. I saw it in his very first run and he has just got better and better. That 9 lengths maiden victory looked suspicious at the time but it doesn’t now does it? Remember those that fancy Moonlight Magic, TG beat Safaar 9 lengths who then ran 3 lengths behind Moonlight Magic. Different trip admittedly but that’s a lot of ground to make up. Also at Deauville he wasn’t stopping at the end of that mile. If they can get him to settle over the longer trip that killer turn of foot will leave them for dead.
So what about that stamina? Well the dam was more of a miler and was by Danehill but there was stamina on the granddam’s side. No problem on dad’s side obviously. People are right to think that a horse that quick might struggle to stay the extra half mile but they are all saying that 10f will be his absolute optimum so why not have that one go at 12f in the big one?
I am pretty sure they are thinking Epsom for him – his price has contracted again today and, unlike with Frankel, the horse has already been beaten, there is no unbeaten record to protect and there is no standout Ballydoyle Derby horse. In fact I wouldn’t be at all surprised if, in the event that they DO run TG, they end up sending just one or two more and keep the race simple. USAR could go to The Curragh, Deauville to Chantilly (:)) and Port Douglas to Royal Ascot for The King Edward.
Anyway it’s a game of opinions and all will be revealed over the next few weeks. But this is a very serious horse and I would be very surprised if he gets beat this year. The only thing that could stop him is lack of stamina."this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I’m on at 16s and I hope I get a run for my money. Must admit I wouldn’t touch him at the current prices. I am a tadge worried about the dams side and him getting the trip but there is only one Derby. None of Aobs are screaming run me in the Derby and that is the hope I’m clinging onto. Come on Aidy you know it makes sense!
Ok so here’s a prediction for you. The Gurkha will be the highest rated Galileo after Frankel.
One step at a time now Joni. Remember Ectot
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
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