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Even if Foundation was “woeful” in the Craven there were valid excuses for it as I mentioned. He wasn’t woeful today was he? He just ran as good as he probably is – a pretty good horse probably capable of winning again at Group 2 level and who might run into a place in the French Derby. I really respect your thoughts Steve and you are normally almost always close to the mark. My only point is that the we shouldn’t necessarily decry the Dante just because the favourite didn’t win it by three lengths going away. Midterm had it all still to prove on the form book and simply wasn’t good enough. To me it looked a good race and I think the main protagonists will turn out to be pretty decent. Sorry about getting Maassat’s rating wrong.
You could very well be proved correct Joni.
I can’t help but wonder what sort of mark Midterm has run to today though. He barely managed to hold off a horse rated 93, a full 19lbs below him, and he only managed to do that because Victory Bond weakened badly.
Victory Bond ran behind Algometer at 2 but then won a god awful race a Ripon at odds of 2/5 from a horse rated 80.
We will see how many Aidan runs in the Derby and whether Deauville is in there. It sort of looks like Ballydoyle will have to send a cavalry sized posse this year, with a fag paper probably covering about 8 horses in the yard.
Wings Of Desire could well win a mediocre looking Derby, particularly if Foundation truly ran to 110 today. Foundation earned that mark what seems like an awful long time ago though, and it hasn’t progressed one ounce since. I just wonder if he has actually regressed slightly and the jockey getting off him to ride a maiden winner would be ominously indicative of that to me.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
No need for Minding now in the Derby I would think. AOB must know exactly where he stands now based on Deauville’s run. If US Army Ranger is indeed better than him as they seem to think, then the winner is quite likely to come out of the Chester Vase. But, even if not, I would hardly write off the possibility that Deauville could turn the form around with Wings Of Desire. It was his first run of the season, had a fairly tough trip racing without cover outside the leader and was in front for a very long time on a longer final straight than Epsom. It’s perfectly possible for AOB to win the Derby without Minding, and he will need her if he is to win the Oaks which is going Gosden’s way otherwise.
I certainly can see deauville reversing the form as he wasn’t stopping in front and will relish the extra distance. In a race which could be very tight I can see him battling to the finish.
I think at this time of year we can’t really say that a horse is a legitimate 93 rated can we? He had only run twice and had any amount of improvement in him. He was actually well supported and of course, as was repeated several times on Racing UK, Haggas doesn’t tilt at windmills. In fact Midterm beat Victory Bond by a length and a quarter, Victory Bond beat Algometer 3/4 length and Midterm beat Algometer a length and a half. Kind of works out doesn’t it? Saying that I DO think Midterm probably ran slightly below form. He was keen enough and all his winning had been on a softer surface. I could be wrong but I just don’t think he is good enough AT THIS STAGE – we all know what Stoute can do with them as they get older.
It’s all a game of opinions and that is why we are able to sometimes get decent odds, because others disagree. I remember last year making a lot of money backing 3 year olds against their elders because the general perception was that they weren’t much good. For what it’s worth I think Foundation DID improve yesterday or at least ran to his mark. He met trouble in running and was checked at an important part in the race. He wouldn’t have won but he would have finished closer. The front three pulled nicely clear and the trainer was very happy with the run. Yes time will certainly tell.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
One I think who is underrated is Linguistic
Finished like a train at chester in what seemed to be a slowly run race. Trainer reckons he’ll improve for a step up in distance
Seems a very open race anyway. Godolphin have a strong hand as not only do they have linguistic they also have cloth of stars
I’m not speed ratings expert by any means but in Wings of desires favour is that the time was fast. The Dante was a fair bit quicker than the Middleton ran on the same card.
He ran the last three furlongs of his race half a second quicker on my rough hand timings than So Mi Dar ran in the Musidora the previous day carrying the same weight
He would have to give her weight though in a race and obviously the ground quickened from the weds to thursday.
We know he gets a mile and a half so he looks bombproof for a place, at least.
Still Golden Horn ran the final three furlongs of his Dante in more or less the same time (close to 36 seconds dead) on slower ground than Wings of Desire ran over. Wings of Desire is also a smaller horse and visually much less impressive than Golden horn, although in fairness that horse was a one off
My feeling is that Wings of Desire has reasonable credentials for Epsom but clearly he’s no Golden Horn going there with an outstanding chance.
Race is wide open.
US ARMY RANGER DEFINITELY WINS THE DERBY, DANGER FOR ME WOULD STILL BE MIDTERM! THE DANTE WAS A PATHETIC RACE
Are you angry goreisking or do you not know how to turn off caps lock?
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I can’t have the Dante being a “Pathetic” race.
I just wonder if it is a below par renewal. Only time will tell on that one but take nothing away from the winner, he has improved a big chunk and, knowing Gosden, he may improve another 7lbs to 10lbs by Derby Day.
If we accept that Deauville and Foundation ran right up to their marks, you would need to be looking at about 113 to 115 for Wings Of Desire after that Dante win.
Golden Horn came out of the Dante last year rated 118 and improved markedly in the Derby.
I am just a shade dubious because of Foundation’s awful comeback in the Craven and the fact that Aidan seems to have enough horses rated about the same level that he could make a Football Team out of them, with the problem being that the team would probably equate to Everton in football terms.
At the rate he is improving I make Wings Of Desire favourite for The Derby now. I believe he will readily outpoint US Army Ranger, who is all bluster for the moment.
Aidan has said this and that and plenty more besides about the horse’s talent but the racecourse evidence shows a 3/4 of a length win in a maiden that hasn’t worked out well, (Runner up beaten next time and third won before being beaten fav next time)
In the Chester Vase we all saw US Army Ranger struggle in receipt of weight from his far from hard ridden stable mate. He will certainly stay but I have my doubts about pace and the intrinsic talent he possesses.
I hope Cloth Of Stars turns up and he’s certainly a contender in this renewal.
Looking through the field you can take a machete to it and cut out the dross, those who won’t be running and those with no chance if they started now.
Foundation for a start is not going to be going there and Hugo Palmer has more or less said he doesn’t want to run Galileo Gold but Harry Herbert has kept telling the owners he may yet run. I suspect he won’t run and it looks an open race, so why shouldn’t Andre Fabre let Cloth Of Stars take his chance?
It may be a decent Dante but I am sceptical that it’s much above average. There is no way it is “pathetic” though. The race is a much better guide than the Chester Vase, which is often won by horses lacking the toe for the Derby itself.
ps it seems illogical to see the 5th horse in a “pathetic” race, as one of the more likely winners of the Derby
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
The horse that won the dante is an out and out donkey, just turned into a staying match.
Well at least you’ve got the caps lock off.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
The horse that won the dante is an out and out donkey, just turned into a staying match.
He’s well bred for a donkey.
Don’t worry about breeding just worry about what I say, it has similar breeding to eagle top which is another donkey. I am only interested in superstars in racing I can’t be assed with these listed/group 3/2 horses they’re all sh*t. I will give everyone on this forum £500 each if wings of desire wins the Derby. 🙁
Don’t worry about breeding just worry about what I say, it has similar breeding to eagle top which is another donkey. I am only interested in superstars in racing I can’t be assed with these listed/group 3/2 horses they’re all sh*t. I will give everyone on this forum £500 each if wings of desire wins the Derby.
I’ve laid Wings Of Desire for a guaranteed profit now.
Thanks for your kind gesture.
I expect membership of the forum to increase tenfold today, I know I’ve registered under 99 other pseudonyms today myself. 😉
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Don’t worry about breeding just worry about what I say, it has similar breeding to eagle top which is another donkey. I am only interested in superstars in racing I can’t be assed with these listed/group 3/2 horses they’re all sh*t. I will give everyone on this forum £500 each if wings of desire wins the Derby.
He was certainly an expensive donkey today, ran like a drain. He’s generally been disappointing for me. He looked good on his debut but was awful next time out, he then had a great run but generally speaking has disappointed more often than not.
The channel 4 boys are just discussing the pedigree and how many of them seemed to become unreliable with time. He’s approaching squiggle material for my mind. I stopped following him when Snow Sky thumped him last year.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Don’t worry about breeding just worry about what I say, it has similar breeding to eagle top which is another donkey. I am only interested in superstars in racing I can’t be assed with these listed/group 3/2 horses they’re all sh*t. I will give everyone on this forum £500 each if wings of desire wins the Derby.
Lol! I would laugh so much if he hacked up at Epsom! And I would laugh harder if he won by a nose.
Is Sariska a donkey? She beat Midday every time they met, and Midday was pretty good.
I don’t think Wings of Desire will win the Derby, but nor do I consider him a donkey. 🙂
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