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But what about Carlton House my friend? BTW for the record the thing about WD whinnying for his mother made me giggle. Horses are weaned at 6 months so he would not be able to pick her from a herd of cows, animal memories are not like humans!
I am inclined to agree with you re Galileo. The amount of dross he has produced on the way to a few top raters is substantial. Aidan seems to have about 100 by him in his stable this year and not one single one has been exceptional. In fact his top horses are by High Chaparral, Giants Causeway and Montjeu!
Montjeu has always been one of my favourite stallions but he seems to have peaked a few years back and has been dropping off recently.
Absolutely loved Danehill – now THAT was some stallion! He went out on such a high having produced loads of stakes performers in his last few crops, including some of my favourite performers. One of those rarities that could produce a G1 sprinter and an Arc winner. Incredible!
Which stallions are you favourite?
Well I didn’t mean it as a joke, it’s true. Horses that whinny generally want their mothers.
I’m not sure why Montjeu’s popularity has weaned somewhat. I’d imagine it’s because he produces rather one-dimensional sorts, ie. stayers. St. Nicholas Abbey’s RP Trophy performance would’ve meant that interest in sending mares to him would’ve increased. I don’t have the figures to back that up, but I’d imagine it’s true. I’d imagine a lot of his horses are also difficult to train too. Galileo’s progeny have consistently proved their worth from a mile upwards over the past 4 seasons.
I don’t think Carlton House will be good enough. I think he was flattered by the winning distance at Newbury. He drifted both times he ran and ran in a lowly maiden at Salisbury. The Cambridgeshire meeting began just a day later and in the very first race on Day 1 there was a 1m maiden in which Stoute had the 2nd, Academy. Backed from 6s into 5s. Surely Carlton House would’ve debuted at Newmarket if they’d rated him. His foaling date is also sufficiently late to suggest he might not have developed enough in time for Epsom. He obviously warrants respect though given he’s 2nd favourite and seemingly Stoute’s only intended runner.
My favourite stallions, hmmm. Well I’m a colossal fan of Montjeu despite not siring any quick horses. Don’t like Galileo so much, I try to oppose his as much as possible. His horses don’t run well at a certain distance, they all seem to have their own trip and any sort of breath of stamina in the conduit side means they’re slow plodders. Seville’s a prime example of this. I would be stunned into silence for a week were he to win the Dante or even get close.
Pivotal fillies are very good, same goes for Medaglia D’Oro. Dubawi and Shamardal are going places too. Difficult to really give a favourite, just need to find good sire-damsire crosses that produce good horses and big prices. King’s Best-Sadler’s Wells, Dubawi-Green Desert, Gaileo-Danehill, Sinndar-Darshaan/Sadler’s Wells.
An absolute stone-cold certainty next time out is Modun. I opposed him relentlessly at Newbury, win laid him in the morning, place laid him when I got to the course. Huge horse, unfit, built like a chaser, priced up on a maiden win at Folkestone and a 2nd on the AW in a handicap over 2f further. Hadn’t even noticed the King’s Best-Sadler’s Wells cross. Anyway, he bolted up. Just annhialated them. The 2nd, Udabaa, came out on Saturday and finished 3rd in the 12f handicap at Ascot and should’ve been a lot closer. Found a lot of trouble in-running. Modun next time out will bolt up, wherever he runs. A horse with colossal talent and he was unfit. I wonder if they’ll put him away for the Wolferton. There’s a 10f handicap at York next week that The Fonz ran in last season and finished 2nd in and I thought Modun might go there but no entry. Just lump on wherever he goes.
Well thanks for the tip re Modun but I never gamble myself I am far too thrifty (Scottish!) for that.
You seem to have studied pedigrees a lot and I have recently become interested in them in more detail. I have heard about this nicks theory, apparently there is some evidence to support it but at the same time breeding is a very inexact science and there are still many detractors who consider that in the case of most nicks there is not enough numbers to back up the theory.
To clarify though and I have been around horses all my life, I can guaranty you they are NOT whinnying for their mothers. The are in fact calling for their friends. Horses actually have a pretty good memory for around a year of the different horses that they become attached to on account of being in the same yard. When they are separated to compete they start calling for each other. I have personal experience of the inconvenience of this attachment where my warmblood eventer dragged me around the show ground calling out for his girlfriend, my mare, and when she returned he marched straight up to her and put his muzzle up to hers! These two horses share a field and a stable yard so they have become very attached but even where the mare comes back from the trainer having been away for 6 months he goes crazy when she comes back! Very cute actually
I think the emergence of young Darley sires can do nothing but good for the breed. Too much line breeding using close relations with multiple appearances of Northern Dancer in their pedigrees cannot be good for the breed in terms of diversity and anatomical stability. It also means the less fashionable stallions who may have had a chance to produce some decent horses and preserve their genes are sent the terrible mares or no mares at all. I read somewhere that Azamour only had 30 nominations in one of his previous crops.
The Coolmore powerhouse cannot monopolise the breed forever and outcrosses such as Cape Cross ex Urban Sea have been shown to produce a certain exceptional racehorse! So sad that Dubai Millenium died so young as on the evidence of his first crop he would have had a very beneficial effect on the breed. Lucky we have Dubawi to preserve his genes.
Anyway enough of my waffling. I have seen a stallion a few times recently in pedigrees called Candy Stripes – do you know anything about it?
Could only tell you what the RP tells me – sired Invasor and Leroidesanimaux. I suppose that’s the part of the pedigree that Animal Kingdom got the dirt part from.
I’ve hardly studied pedigrees to be honest, just learning as I go along and studying more in-depth. Picked up a few stats along the way too. A mate of mine befriended a pedigree analyst for the Head family last month and although we only spoke for a few minutes at a time, I learnt quite a bit. He writes for European Bloodstock so obviously knows what he’s talking about.
I should’ve mentioned, I adore Kingmambo as a sire. I think he’s incredibly underrated given the amount of Stakes performers he’s sired, especially since they don’t go a yard if there’s any sort of cut in the ground. The Kingmambo-Sadler’s Wells nick is just astonishing. 68 recorded runners, 23 recorded a RPR of 100+. El Condor Pasa, Henrythenavigator, Divine Proportions, Thewayyouare, Virginia Waters, etc. Hopefully Wonder of Wonders will be able to add her name to the list in a month’s time. I read a while back that his strikerate in handicaps is extremely high and it’s not difficult to work out why.
That’s a lovely story. Very cute indeed. Hmmm quite a few people told me they were whinnying for their mothers and actually I got very sad the first time I heard it, thought it was so sweet. Well he was whinnying, doesn’t matter who for. Very green in the paddock too.
God, only 30 nominations for Azamour. That’s criminal.
What would you do if you owned a sire whose foals had a fifty fifty chance of being a useless female? Cut the nomination fee or kill the fillies and allow a free return? Cheaper to kill the fillies at birth than watch them go crazy? Aidan trained one a couple of years ago and actually won some kind of race with her I believe.Of course it all depends on how good the sire was with his colts! Hardly worth taking a chance with an ordinary sire.Only time will tell if the fillies get good stock.If I owned such a filly I would breed her to NH sires.Maybe a half breed hunting sire.Breed out the crazyness so to speak.
I not in Trinity Admiral…although i wish i could to expierence it but alas my course would not be Trinitys expertise.
I think people are being harsh on Galileo
Teofilo
New Approach
Rip Van Winkle
Cape Blanco
Frankel
Soldier of Fortune
Red RocksAll very good horses who excelled over further than 1 Mile except for Teofilo and Frankel. I challenge anyone to come up with a stallion that even nears that other than Montjeu in the potential for future stallions from his coverings. Galileo was best over 1m2f and 1m4f, i a bit surprised people expect him to produce Milers, all his milers have been ridden up close to the pace in order to ensure they get first run and out run the stamina inferior speed horses. Coolmore monopolise him with Ballydoyle because he has proven to have an exceptional pedigree behind any horse by him and this gives Stallions a very good chance of becoming successful. Aidan O Brien is really due a Great Galileo he has had 2 good ones but really needs a Frankel. Coolmore would pay 80-100 Million for Frankel with his pedigree if they could get him.
Zarakava,
Marksmanship can still go for the Gallinule like Jan Vermeer last year.
Anyone know a link to watch the big French race today?
Sorry, when I said Ballysax I meant Gallinule. Would be very surprised if Pour Moi came over here. He’s not good enough.
I’d say he was plenty good enough myself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkfQqPHcapQ
That said I was impressed with Recital and Fallon is a total master round Epsom, he’d be the one, unless the Dante throws up something stunning..
I just seen Pour Moi….
That was a hell of a performance. He was ridden like a Champion and he really delivered. I wonder what they do with him…John Magnier will really be jumping for job with the pace that lad showed being by Montjeu to basically sprint past the field.
Bred by Mastercraftsman Coolmore offshoot stud…(cant remember the name of the guy, always with Magnier @ the Curragh) that was very impressive. No Irish Derby Entry
. I think they may stick to France but a real live wire performance. Still struggling to believe he came so far off the pace going widePour Moi
looks the one at 16/1.
Awesome performance and trained by a master. Really think Coolmore will want to bring him over to Epsom, but got to take the chance. (Love the jockey too!)
Recital looked iffy in the finish, think he needs soft ground.
World Domination is a horrendous price
Carlton House likewise .. Stoutey stable form?
Native Khan had tough race in Guineas and think he lacks the class to be an English Classic winner. Should go for the Jockey Club.
Not convinced by Seville, Dante will tell us more.I wouldn’t care too much if Pour Moi wins, I’ve got him at 95s (posted much earlier in this thread), but it’s such a typical knee-jerk reaction to back the French thing coming over even though no-one has a clue how good the form is.
The horse debuted at Fontainebleu and finished 8th. He won his maiden by a neck next time out, sent off at 15/1. Subsequently he’s been sent off at 12/1 and 12/1. His pedigree is stacked full of stamina and might not even be fast enough for The Derby.
And what about Questioning? John Gosden’s runner who finished 5th. He ran in the Sales race at Newmarket last month and was beaten by Auld Burns and Measuring Time. What did Measuring Time do at Lingfield exactly? Both of them were beaten by Genius Beast at Sandown. He’s not even considered good enough to run in the Dante. Took him 3 tries to win a maiden.
You get impressive French Derby trial winners all the time, doesn’t mean they’re any good. I was expecting to see a typical French race in which they crawled up front, but I’m surprised everyone’s drooling over it as that’s just a typical Montjeu performance.
In Pour Moi’s case, they went so quickly up front that it wouldn’t surprise me if the pace just completely collapsed and the stayer in the field won it.
That’s what happened in this;
timewise, the upside of Pour Moi’s win was that it was the fastest time (123.02 secs) over the 10f distance of Saint Cloud’s racecourse this century bar a ridiculously (hand) timed listed race in June 2003 which stopped the clock at 120.70. That must be wrong.
The downside of the day’s racing was that the 3yo filly Galikova apparently ran 2.30 secs faster than any other of 76 pattern contests held there since 2000 (and a massive 4 seconds faster than the 3rd best).
Given the filly ran 110 yards (presumably 100m) further than the colt, and took only 4.98 secs to do so, suggests Pour Moi clocked a very ordinary time….. or possibly Galikova a superlative one making her the new Zarkava.
Given the proximity of other fillies in the Prix Cleopatre, would deduce that Pour Moi clocked a listed level time at very best.
and High-Rise won a class 3 at pontefract and scraped home in his trial, but Luca always knew he had one
I’d agree you don’t know how good the form is – could just as easily be Derby-winning form as not; quite what the other races you quote have to do with anything I’ve no idea.
Dangerous game being so dismissive, especially in a race where as it stands the market leaders (bar Recital) have a lot to prove, and 2 of the 3 will be beaten horses soon.
Haven’t backed Pour Moi, but he’s on the radar as a very talented horse, for all that he might not go to epsom
I find time/speed analysis generally irrelevant, also.
Just read the lovely and sometimes ridiculed Jan Vermeer is running over a mile in the Lockinge. Strange decision to run a Montjeu over that distance, especially an older one though I suppose he hardly stayed 12f last year.
Will Canford be running in Ballydoyle colours or the old owners colours?
Was great to see Goldikova’s little sister doing well, that Born Gold is some broodmare!
Re Galileo – if you look at the number of runners he has rated 100 or more his figure is considerable lower than Daneill’s and his progeny over 120 is just into double figures I seem to recall. For sure he has produces a few goods ones but I feel his weakness is a lack of strength in depth. Unlike Danehill who had to do it the hard way from the bottom, Galileo does not seem to be able to upgrade lower quality mares, hence the considerable amount of dross he has produced in pursuit of a few genuine champions.
Just had the bitch of an exam, feeling a bit depressed I fear I shall be back in August for a resit in that subject!
More I think about I agree with Ruby that Recital is talented but he is so quirky we may never see it properly or consistently. I think Hawk Wing was like this I believe?
Fallon quotes were interesting. Their is still plenty of work needed on the horse but when they get it right he could be exceptional was basically the gist i got.
Recital has again shortened into 8.4. I won’t be laying off thats for sure. I think the extra 2f of the Derby will be perfect for him and he slice thru the field on the inner with Kieran and then we see is he good enough. Its will be nessecary for Fallon to get to the rail position to make sure he doesn’t drift all over the track.
Hopefully they will develop a plan where they follow one of the pacemakers up the inner
Definitely needs the rail. I would have though the perfect ride would involve him having cover until the last furlong, so that he just has to pop his head in front to win rather than going away from the field by a long margin.
So excited to see Seville on Friday though I think you said he is slower but I just seem to be attached to the horse. He is a lovely looking colt and I think it is nice to see a German bred competing at the top level of TB racing as historically Germany has been focused on being the leading sport horse breeding industry at the cost of not developing a massive TB bloodstock industry the way GB or Ireland has.
I may be ignorant but I did not see any star quality in WDs performance in the maiden and he is not fashionably bred. His sire’s highest rating is 125 which does not bode well for him in terms of being world class. Carlton House is by Street cry whom I think produced the great mare and Street Sense who won the Kentucky Derby so dirt pedigree, though the mare ran exceptionally well on synthetic which is closer to grass.
Just out of interest do you know when they started allowing horses to run on Bute and Lasix and steroids in the US? I think this practice has done nothing but breach welfare standards and cover up weaknesses in the breeding stallions – all other horse sports which are gvoerned under the International Equestrian Federation umbrella have extremely strict rules on medication and withdrawal times.
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