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Coral have removed Cape Blanco from their betting for the Investec Derby at Epsom.
The totesport Dante winner was cut in several places earlier in the day following the news that stablemate St Nicholas Abbey missses Saturday’s Classic.
However it now seems likely that Cape Blanco will wait for the French Derby leaving Jan Vermeer, Midas Touch and At First Sight to present Aidan O’Brien at Epsom.
So whoever said it would win the Derby I hope meant the French version!
Ted who???
Bring on the late entries
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So reethard,its open season on Aidan,Throwing a handful of darts at a dart board. Finishing 23457 is a handful of darts?Wish many other trainers had such "darts" Then sending second string to the Criterium; I suppose you decide what is first and second string at Ballydoyle and what is good enough to win the Criterium. Come off that high seat and get real.
I suppose it’s easy to kick from there
Not so easy if asked to compare.
I choose my life style he chooses his
So please respect him whatever he does.The point being, Andyod, that SMS only runs horses in the Derby with serious intention, and does not:
a) normally use the race as a training exercise, or
b) send a horse as part of an army of pacemakers for his more fancied runners.
It is also a matter of record that AOB has never sent his best 2yo to the Criterium.
Aidan is undoubtedly a very good trainer but, even by your own admission, the artillery provided by the Coolmore operation is far heavier than most other trainers could even dream of.
No, you’re right, Andy. I’m absolutely fed up of them. They’ve done this constantly and enough is enough.
Very strange Derby this is and absolutely baffled as to why Jan Vermeer is so short in the betting. Have Ballydoyle ever once hyped him up? Clearly he wasn’t being considered as one of their best horses since they said time and time again he’d either go to France with a run or Epsom without a run (presumably as an insurance policy to have a Montjeu in the Derby if St Nick got injured) so quite why he’s so short in the betting is baffling. Surely Midas Touch should be the Ballydoyle favourite since his participation has never been in doubt since the Derrinstown? Jan’s gone down a very untraditional route to the Derby and I very much doubt he has the class to win at Epsom.
I’m struggling to see any value in anything and I’m happy to let my 14s on Workforce be my only bet.
I think you will find that adien said if jan goes to Epsom he will need a run which is why he nominated the Irish guineas he said he can go France without a run. considering jan got injured early in march it made sense for connections not to big up his derby chances incase he never made it there
Very strange Derby this is and absolutely baffled as to why Jan Vermeer is so short in the betting. Have Ballydoyle ever once hyped him up? Clearly he wasn’t being considered as one of their best horses since they said time and time again he’d either go to France with a run or Epsom without a run (presumably as an insurance policy to have a Montjeu in the Derby if St Nick got injured) so quite why he’s so short in the betting is baffling. Surely Midas Touch should be the Ballydoyle favourite since his participation has never been in doubt since the Derrinstown?
I’d tend to agree with you, Zar.
Jan Vermeer has never been hyped up to the extent of St Nicholas Abbey, even Cape Blanco, for that matter. The former started his career as a 6/1 chance, the latter duo at 11/10 and 6/4, respectively.
Murtagh even deserted Jan Vermeer in the Criterium De Saint-Cloud in favour of Midas Touch, who was 3L behind him when making his debut at Gowran Park. The pair started the contest as 10/1 and 9/2 shots, respectively.
No antepost favourite. Possibly no Dante winner.
It’s quite possible that the two best middle distance 3YOs aren’t even competing in this years Derby.
Such a shame…
Lol at the hype theories, horses always cease to amaze you Jan Vermeer has done everything and more so far so why the need to criticize a worthy favorite?
It looks like Murtagh and O’Brien have finally woken up and realized who their most talented really is the one they have ignored and left to do his own cooking for the more fashionable types serves them right.
BTW stupid prices just a week ago of 20 and 25s tell you everything you should believe about so called hype!So if Aidan is full of Ballydoyle hype why not ignore him and go strictly by what you see? Check the form.JanVermeer has done it all in public.So has Cape Blanco.The only one to let him down in public was Midas Touch.Form your own judgement.He has run them all in public, it is there for the public to see.Forget the hype and go by your own eyes.Seems like you want Aidan to tell you which is best and then critizise him if it turns out differently.Trainers are wrong as often as they are right.How many fav’s. win?
Plenty good horses have won the Observer Gold Cup equivalent since Vaguely Noble’s day.
Motivator, Reference Point, High Chapparal, Authorised, Celtic Swing, King’s Theatre.
I’d agree "good" horses but not great horses
Vaguely Noble sits alongside Shergar, Dancing Brave, Sea The Stars and Dubai Millenium on Timeform’s all-time list. That looks about right (apart from DM who is over-rated at that mark IMO) but I’d take aboard Himself’s caveat re- the ground.
Is that the 1-2-3-4 in order? I’d agree with you about Dancing Brave, Sea Bird would be my second best colt, the others I’d agree in that order too maybe, but I wouln’t argue against Nijinsk’s inclusion
However, for me, there’s only one No1… Noblesse …she was the best of the lot, certainly she’s be the best racehorse I’ve ever seen, she’d have won The 1963 Derby in a canter if she’s run in it.As regards the going, who can say Vaguely Noble wouldn’t have acted on better ground?
But he wouldn’t have beaten Noblesse Seems some here don’t like the hype that’s accompanied St Nich and Cape B; yet criticise the chances of Jan Vermeer because he hasn’t been hyped. Hasn’t run in the right races and wasn’t the right price when he’s run before.
Trainers often don’t know who their best horses are until they’ve shown it on the track. It doesn’t matter one iota that Jan Vermeer was second string in the Criterium. What matters is the excellent form he showed to win it. It doesn’t matter that he ran in the Gallinule (not usually the favoured trial). His slight problem earlier this year was always going to keep him out of races like the Dante and Derrinstown. The latter won by a horse who’s finished behind Jan Vermeer twice.
Look at the form and not the hype. Jan Vermeer is a worthy favourite, though agree he’s too short now. I’ve layed both my Jan Vermeer and Workforce bets back to get two "free" bets.
Value Is EverythingYeah, clueless the rest of the time aren’t they?
pmsl
If you’re talking to me look I’ve never mentioned the word clueless and O’Brien so what you on about? All I said was they had a horse who had done it on soft and firm ground against decent opposition (easily) yet weren’t really keen on him at all isn’t that doing him a disservice?
I have watched all the top class trainers over here run three-four horses in the Kentucky derby but never subject to the barrage of abuse that Aidan gets. What is with the Oirish begrudgers? Or is it the begrudgers of the Oirish?Last year he ran three who won Group One races each after the Derby; was he wrong to run them? Without his runners the Derby would have been a farce. Sea the Stars and crap.So lighten up Reetard.
It seems as though some can’t get over the fact that sometimes the market is just wrong!
For what reasons… haven’t got time to go into right now – but here are a few examples where a more fancied runner of AOB has been turned over by a longer priced stablemate!13 May ’07 – ‘Archipenko’ 8/1 (1st) – ‘Macarthur’ 8/11F third!
26 Aug ’06 – ‘Eagle Mountain’ 16/1 bt a hd by ‘Teo’ – ‘Trinity College’ 7/4 4th.
If that’s not enough?!
22 Oct ’08 –
You’ll have to look at the form yourselves to see jockey bookings etc…
Still, not bad foresight Zark!
With Planteur almost certainly something of a monster, and with Zarooni hopefully unafflicted as yet by the blue flag wrapped around him,
Rewilding
is of increasing interest. I know some shrewdies on at 100s+, clearly I’m not one of them
As for why ‘Jan’ is a short price Fav – didn’t he trounce the horse in a Group1 (and the only horse) to have beaten the ‘Monster’?! – Who will go off a short price for the JC – provided he gets the draw?!
Yes it was ‘his’ first start – and no doubt experience counted against him – but form is form!
BB – I understand that you have not asked why he is fav?…though it has been asked – is the price right? Hmmm!
Agreed it’s not the ideal prep for ‘Jan’…nor was it for ‘Rewilding’ – when the French prep was available at StC to space the races perfectly….
Yes, it is you with an attempt at a leftfield view – again.
I could understand it if the two you were putting up were actually good value themselves. What exactly have they achieved – on the track?
Stilvi
What you seem unable to appreciate is that form alone often isn’t enough in races full of young unexposed horses, and it helps to have some idea of what connections are up to.
With Workforce – his trainer not noted for throwing a handful of darts at the board and hoping one sticks – we have a horse thought good enough to step straight up to the top Derby trial directly from maiden company. After acquitting himself well, (even though he had neither brakes or steering for much of the race) and, obviously highly-thought of, there was still some doubt as to whether he’d be mature enough for the Derby, the final decision being left to his more than capable trainer.
Not until he’d shipped the horse to Lingfield and given him a proper gallop did he make that decision, and not being the type of trainer to ruin a horse’s future by overfacing him, we can only assume Workforce is fit and capable of running a very good race.
Bullet Train is admittedly a little more chancy, but once again trained by a man who has worked the Derby oracle with similar types before, and more often than the 2nd strings with which AOB usually contests the Criterium.If anyone is throwing darts at a board it is Abdullah. I got the distinct impression that faced with Thommo’s microphone after Lingfield Cecil wanted to tell him that Bullet Train was most likely to be heading for Royal Ascot. The fact that they are both turning up at Epsom would seem to suggest that one doesn’t have a massively better chance than the other. The horse to take out of the Dante was the winner which should give O’Brien a pretty good line to the form.
Pedigreeman,
Even if no one else appreciates it, I find your posts fascinating (and a little prescient), so please keep sharing.Vaguely Noble was rated equal to those I mentioned CS. Others were rated higher namely Sea Bird, Brigadier Gerard and Tudor Minstrel (jt 2nd), Abernant and Ribot (jt 4th) and Mill Reef.
Nijinsky comes further down the list, behind Generous and Reference Point, among others, and equal to Daylami.
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