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It’s been hard to come from the back at this meeting, even in truly run races. However, may be that’s particularly down to the ground – difficult for horses to quicken off that surface on an undulating track. May not have the same affect on firmish ground another year. Something well worth remembering nonetheless. That said, it’s another reason not to take too dim a view of Cracksman’s performance.
Jockey plaudits imo go to SDS, he rode the track magnificently throughout – including on non-winners and outsiders.
Anyone else think the stand rail had an even greater advantage than usual at this meeting (considering it was far from bottomless)?
Value Is EverythingIt was a strange meeting in many ways Ginger. I agree with you that there seemed to be
quite an advantage this year with horses going up the stand rail, which made the first
race all the more bizarre. They came round Tattenham Corner and spread out like a fan,
which let Connect, who was plumb last behind a wall of horses on the inside, have a clear
passage to charge through up the rail and win. I don’t think he would have won without the
field spreading across the track. It wasn’t quite as bad after that, although quite a few
didn’t seem to grasp the situation and did take the wide route to no avail. Obviously the
Dash was a different kettle of fish, and the far side was the place to be, but that was
the only race not having to tackle a bend.Couldn’t agree more about SDS, he’s a great race reader and rider, and he did me a good
turn in the last on Aces
I third all that. SDS is the best around at the moment and should get many more big-race rides imo. His judgment of pace is second to none. There is no better jockey riding from the front and Epsom brings out the best in him.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Agree with all that was said and SDS definitely on his way for the jockey championship.
Well done with you Dash winner Tanasoq Graham
that was an exciting race and my choice Equimou definitely needed to come with a late run which she was denied through being badly hampered, but think she was going nowhere at the time.I read on Racing Post that Cracksman got a knock on the head as he left the stalls so that might have contributed to his bad run, would have hated to have seen him lose his winning record and he’ll be back in top form next race.
A little bird said you might have picked the Derby winner Ginge, well done you. Saw him in the flesh at Newmarket and he is the best looking chestnut I’ve seen (bit like yourself
) JacThings turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...Mark is more a ginger nut, well strawberry blond when the sun is out than a chestnut…
Masar is beautiful looking though much in the way like Dawn Approach was. New Approach can certainly produce some good looking animals.Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
Nathan, I’m probably in Ginger’s camp, having been ginger but seem to have
“lightened” a tad. I went into the chemist yesterday to get my photos taken
for my passport which runs out next month. When the young assistant came back
with the 4 photos, I looked at then and said to her “I think something is wrong
with your camera, it’s made my hair look white”. She looked intently at the
photos for a few seconds, and then without trying to make it look obvious she
looked at my hair. She didn’t know what to say for a moment, until I couldn’t
keep a straight face anymore. Her face was a picture before she realised I was
at the madam
“Anyone else think the stand rail had an even greater advantage than usual at this meeting (considering it was far from bottomless)?”
Most racing professional or “the sheep” as I refer to them, wouldn’t know what a going allowance was, did any of them realise that the official going was soft on Friday then on Saturday is was given out as good, did they pull the plug out?
On Friday I had the going on the slow side of good at -0.13s/f, on Saturday I had track riding at +0.12s/f (good).
Friday’s rail movements at Epsom:
Rails: Rail out from 1m to winning post, effect on distances as follows; 6f +8y 7f +10y All races 1m+ +12y
8yds = 0.53s
10yds = 0.66s
12yds = 0.8sAs for Cracksman, there was nothing wrong with his run earning the top speed figure on the day of 89 which was 1lb better than Masar’s Derby figure of 88, for the record I do not use WFA as it corrupts my speed figures.
Going allowance table:
Firm +0.50s/f
Good to firm +0.25s/f
Good 0.00s/f
Good to soft -0.25s/f
Soft -0.50s/f
Soft to heavy -0.75s/f
Heavy -1.00s/f (there is no limit to heavy, I have had the going at Cork (IRE) at -3.20s/f (bottomless)FlatTurf2018: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Fo12vn11NrT1mgHKBMY71hZqY0q_dok8
You can scroll the list.Mike.
Totally agree with your going assessments TBB.
As I said on the Derby thread, looking at the times of the first two races on Friday it was genuinely good-soft… not the official soft… And in my DLAP thread saying after three races on Saturday (judged on times) the ground was genuinely good… not the official good-soft.What I meant by the opening post was that normally I’d expect a considerable Epsom stand rail bias on soft or heavy. I’d be interested to know if that is your experience?
However, the rail draw advantage at this particular meeting seemed to me also considerable on both days, ie quite a bit more than I’d expect given the only good-soft Friday and good Saturday.
Value Is Everything“What I meant by the opening post was that normally I’d expect a considerable Epsom stand rail bias on soft or heavy. I’d be interested to know if that is your experience?”
With the nature of the track and the famous camber, I don’t think I could honestly answer that question.
What did surprise me, in the Oaks they crossed over and came up the home straight on the stand side, in the Derby they stuck to the normal route along the far rail with the camber.Mike.
Did firm up a lot between Friday and Saturday, TBB. In my experience when the ground is genuinely good-soft (like it was Friday) then sometimes it pays to come over, sometimes it does not. This time it did. (On soft or heavy it always pays).
However, on genuinely Good ground (like it was Saturday) although still better/firmer ground on the stand rail (than inner)… It was not then enough of an advantage to be worth giving away so much ground from the home turn to stand rail. Especially when there’s a fresh strip on the inner.
What also surprised me was jockeys in the first half of Friday only coming over so far. In my experience if it is advantageous to come over then it is usually best to come all the way over to the rail.
Value Is EverythingVery interesting analysis TBB. It shows that Cracksman didn’t run half as bad as people made out. In fact he has only been downgraded because he beat an otherwise exposed horse in Salouen. But if you ignore that one for a moment, he beat Windstoss by 4 lengths and Idaho by just over 8. The last time Windstoss ran over 12f on soft ground he recorded an RPR of 118 and yet the Racing Post are assuming he ran well under this mark and gave him only 112 on Friday. I wonder if that’s right or whether he actually ran true to form or perhaps even better? Idaho probably didn’t like the ground but did he really only run to 105?
There is no doubt in my mind that Salouen put in a big career best as he was running on soft ground over 12f for the first time and was given a masterful ride by SDS. Time will obviously tell but it could well be that Cracksman put in a mid 120’s performance in winning that race….
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
“There is no doubt in my mind that Salouen put in a big career best as he was running on soft ground over 12f for the first time and was given a masterful ride by SDS. Time will obviously tell but it could well be that Cracksman put in a mid 120’s performance in winning that race….”
Salouen speed figures:
01-Jun-18 Eps C1G1 238K 1m4f 89
12-May-18 Asc C1L 26K 1m4f 70
30-Sep-17 Cha G2 97K 1m2f 94
15-Aug-17 Dea 3yG2 195K 1m2f 87
08-Jul-17 San C1G1 284K 1m2f 73
23-Jun-17 Asc C13yG2 128K 1m4f 75
03-Jun-17 Eps C13yG1 922K 1m4f 79Mike.
There may be a possibility of track position affecting Cracksman’s performance, when held up further back than usual. To some extent understandably so after his two previous races at 1m2f. Last time those tactics were used was the Irish Derby, before Cracksman’s improvement in to a top class racehorse. Even in his best performances Cracksman had to be quite vigorously asked for his effort at some stage. This time that stage came earlier. It was a similar situation with Altior in the Champion Chase. As in the wild, a lot of horses have a particular place they prefer to be in the pack.
Until the very latter stages Cracksman also raced up the straight further towards the centre than all his rivals; on the worst ground.
Cracksman is one whose asset is not a short burst of outright speed but a surge of long sustained speed. At the spot where his effort usually begins Cracksman was coming downhill on a soft surface. All Friday at Epsom every horse found it difficult to come from behind. Valid reasons Cracksman couldn’t quicken to the usual extent; only fully doing so once hitting the rise and then powering through once Frankie switched to the Stand rail.
Salouen appeared likely to put up a vastly improved performance in last year’s Derby (probably destined for a first six placing) before stumbling badly and finishing 13th. Epsom obviously suits the horse well and had – as results proved on Friday – the advantage of being ridden prominently. using Racing Post Standard Times – Salouen put up the fastest time of the day. On previous form the time (given ground coditions) would be impossible for the old Salouen. Yes, he probably needs the same set of circumstances to reproduce this form, but little doubt he improved in conditions he’d never had before.
Taking out the horse that had the run-of-the-race and Cracksman beat the third Windstoss by a fair margin…
All the above considered and Cracksman’s performance wasn’t anywhere near as bad as some believe.
Value Is Everything
) Jac
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