- This topic has 9 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 5 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
How much affect do you think weight actually has on a horse in a handicap? Surely with an animal so large a difference of a few pounds should not not that much of a difference, although for many horses, it appears to be the only possible explanation. Don’t know what everyone else thinks, i’ve just always wondered.
There is a welter of evidence over centuries to show it makes a measurable and quantifiable difference Dusty.
The effect on individual horses may be variable though. It would seem plausible that bigger/stronger horses may be at an advantage when it comes to carrying bigger weights.
I don’t understand how a horse like Denman can run consistently well in Grade 1 races carrying 11:10, but then fall in to a hole in last seasons Hennessey with people acclaiming "that big weights told in the end". The 2lb makes that much difference?
I also read and hear on a fairly regular basis that, for example, Kauto Star isn’t built to carry big weights in handicaps. Yet he carries 11:10 in every Grade 1 race he runs, which is a mere 2lb short of what he would carry top weight in a handicap.
Is it all an urban myth?
- Total Posts 17716
I don’t understand how a horse like Denman can run consistently well in Grade 1 races carrying 11:10, but then fall in to a hole in last seasons Hennessey with people acclaiming "that big weights told in the end". The 2lb makes that much difference?
I also read and hear on a fairly regular basis that, for example, Kauto Star isn’t built to carry big weights in handicaps. Yet he carries 11:10 in every Grade 1 race he runs, which is a mere 2lb short of what he would carry top weight in a handicap.
Is it all an urban myth?
Not at all, imo, though it’s often trotted out as the reason for a horse’s defeat (a la Denman) by pundits and racereaders too lazy or inept to identify the real cause.
Just to clarify – i meant is it an Urban Myth that certain horses don’t carry weight well, for example Kauto Star. If he wasn’t suited to carry 11:12 in a handicap surely he couldn’t dominate Grade 1’s carrying 11:10?
isnt it more the fact that in the conditions races all his rivals are carrying the same weight whereas in handicaps they will be carrying less ?
Appreciate that but why does common opinion appear to be that Denman is a brute of a horse and thus capable of carrying "big" weights, and Kauto Star is not. He carried 11:10 well enough on many occasions. If other horses beat him carrying less, this is surely the nature of handicaps and the other horses running faster due to a reduction in weight on their backs, not a case of the horse stopping like a brick because he "is not suited" to carrying big weights.
Apologies if i am not making sense.
I don’t understand how a horse like Denman can run consistently well in Grade 1 races carrying 11:10, but then fall in to a hole in last seasons Hennessey with people acclaiming "that big weights told in the end". The 2lb makes that much difference?
I also read and hear on a fairly regular basis that, for example, Kauto Star isn’t built to carry big weights in handicaps. Yet he carries 11:10 in every Grade 1 race he runs, which is a mere 2lb short of what he would carry top weight in a handicap.
Is it all an urban myth?
PC,
Denman ran at least as well to be 3rd to Diamond Harry as he did when 2nd to Long Run in the Gold Cup. did not "fall in to a hole" at all. Just trying to give enormous amounts of weight to a couple of improving horses, themselves capable of Grade 1 winning form
You should not judge any handicap on how much weight is carried. It should instead be judged on the mark it ran off and marks of the horses he beat / got beaten by and distances concerned. The 2 lbs you talk about means nothing to how good each performance was.
The fact Kauto Star never ran in a handicap is a shame. Although not the big beast Denman was, Kauto Star should have been capable of showing the same form in handicaps. In his case I believe the "not built to carry the weight" was used as an excuse not to run KS in a handicap.
Value Is EverythingKauto Star did run in a handicap chase, twice, the Old Roan Chase at Aintree.
First time he carried top weight, 11st 10lbs, and won by over twenty lengths, following year with the same weight, he just failed to give a stone to Monets Garden.
AP
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.