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to get him haring off into oblivion
They didn’t “get” him to hare off. That was Fanning’s choice.
Presumably his job was to ensure a strong gallop, not to lead whatever the cost.
If the Ballydoyle horses wanted to go off faster than him, why couldn’t he just sit behind them, ready to take over if they slowed the pace down?
It’s not like Champery is a horse that has the psychological compulsion to lead. He didn’t take the lead in 2 of his previous 3 races.
IMO (and I said this during the race), Fanning made an arse of his job.
However, so did Dettori who clearly decided that all he had to do to win was to beat GW.
So, GW was held up at the back, Authorized was held up at the back (which didn’t happen in the Derby). GW stayed far side, Authorized stayed far side (even though the ground was faster rail side).
Frankie won his battle, but lost the race.
Just like Fanning, he had his choices. He could have moved up eary when the pace was slowed down so that he’d be better placed for the inevitable charge to the line.
We idiots don’t need to analyse, we just watch the race!
What you’re really saying is that you can’t answer any of the questions.
Steve
Not so as you would understand!
Ahhhh!
The old “it’s so obvious I don’t have to explain it” argument … a favourite of those with no leg to stand on.
Steve
Why label those you are referring to as "the Irish" Reet Hard? Only three of the horses (Authorized, George and Yellowstone) who competed are Irish; five of the jockeys who rode in the race are Irish. You’re referring to the O’Brien horses, and I think it’s preferable for everybody that you refer to them simply as that.
Bringing nationality into a wonderful event like yesterday’s Eclipse is beyond moronic, shameful, and has no place on a forum of this calibre. I think the clever thing to do is edit your post substituting "The Irish" with "The O’Brien stable".
A look through many of your previous posts indicates that you’re inclined to agree with any vaguely anti-Irish stance, Clivex.
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Why label those you are referring to as "the Irish" Reet Hard? Only three of the horses (Authorized, George and Yellowstone) who competed are Irish; five of the jockeys who rode in the race are Irish. You’re referring to the O’Brien horses, and I think it’s preferable for everybody that you refer to them simply as that.
Bringing nationality into a wonderful event like yesterday’s Eclipse is beyond moronic, shameful, and has no place on a forum of this calibre. I think the clever thing to do is edit your post substituting "The Irish" with "The O’Brien stable".
A look through many of your previous posts indicates that you’re inclined to agree with any vaguely anti-Irish stance, Clivex.
What absolute and utter bo**ocks, dandan, maybe it’s your racist mind that creates demons where there are none?
If you read my post again, you should see that the ‘Irish’ you so object to is used so as not to repeat ‘The AoB horses’ in the same sentence/para, a simple matter of good English. (The grammar, not the nation, before you go off on another one).As a very dissapointed punter who had ignored all the stats aout derby winners and the eclipse and had a substantial wager on authorized, The decision made by frankie not to bother to walk both sides of the course despite the fact he’d been there for 2 days riding was appauling and it was completely his fault the horse stood no chance. inspired ride by ryan moore though proved he’s not above walking the course unlike the celebrity dettori.
Why label those you are referring to as "the Irish" Reet Hard? Only three of the horses (Authorized, George and Yellowstone) who competed are Irish; five of the jockeys who rode in the race are Irish. You’re referring to the O’Brien horses, and I think it’s preferable for everybody that you refer to them simply as that.
Bringing nationality into a wonderful event like yesterday’s Eclipse is beyond moronic, shameful, and has no place on a forum of this calibre. I think the clever thing to do is edit your post substituting "The Irish" with "The O’Brien stable".
A look through many of your previous posts indicates that you’re inclined to agree with any vaguely anti-Irish stance, Clivex.
Lol, come on guys, lighten up.
I hardly think he needs to edit his post simply because he used the phrase ‘the irish’. For crying out loud the term ‘the irish’ is referred all the time.
Even the bookies price up markets like "how many winners will the irish have"? Are you saying they need to re-phrase this and say how many winners will the combined stables of O’Brien, Bolger, Wachman,Weld, Oxx, Lyons, Stack etc have?
Yesterday there were 4 English trained runners and 4 Irish trained runners, so there is absolutley nothing wrong with the term ‘the irish’ when referring to O’Briens horses. In fact I think I heard the saying at least 10 times yesterday on Racing UK.
I think it’s time to put the Eclipse behind us now, me included.
Mike
I see the O’Brien spoilers were out in force again yesterday…and judging by this thread, so were the O’Brien apologists! It was quite easy to predict that the other AoB runners would be there to assist George Washington and not to race on their own merits, so I backed George. Oh well, there’ll be another race soon enough with six Ballydoyle runners to bet on.
Where the 2 horses finished is academic
Not when you’re calling into question whether they were ridden to achieve the best possible placing.
If I jumped the gun, Reet, fair enough I take it back. Could be I took it too seriously!
If someone had written "…the shameless attempts of the English…" or similar, I think that would have got a reaction too.
I don’t have a "racist mind", but I do get itchy when sport is nationalized in a negative way.
You hypocrite dandan
You complain about the AOB horses being described as "the irish" and then suggest that criticism of the same (by me) is an "anti irish stance"
Berk
As stated on the previous thread re pacemakers, where do we draw the line on team tactics, and what constitutes spoiling tactics and what constitutes team tactics. And depending on your opinion on team tactics, hence your opinion on the tactics/antic of "Team Ballydoyle" yesterday.
And what is going on at Ballydoyle this season – they seem to have a million horses in every race which was never the case in previous seasons, at least to the same extent.
Lately, racing seems to be going along the same lines of every other sport in recent years ie winning is more important than anything else. This attitude has ruined football not to mention snooker, tennis, golf and virtually every other sport where individuality and ability has been overtaken by robotic monotony.
Ultimately, both the Irish connections and the connections of Authorized may have done better if they had concentrated on riding ‘normal’ races, taking into account the conditions like Ryan Moore, as opposed to constructing elaborate strategies, which made rather a mess of the race.
Well done to Stoute and Moore.
And what is going on at Ballydoyle this season – they seem to have a million horses in every race which was never the case in previous seasons, at least to the same extent.
A unusually high amount of good 3yos and not enough top races to go around?
There’s two alternatives.
First, they keep their horses apart, which is hardly good for racing if we’re not seeing all of the best horses regardless of ownership.
Second, and more fundamentally, a limit is placed on how many horses any one owner or trainer can have, which is surely a complete non-starter?
Good enough to place 1-2-3 with six different horses in two of the biggest 3yo races of the season.
Good enough that half a dozen were able to win Derby trials and deserve their chance in the race itself.
It’s not like it’s always like this – it wasn’t that long ago that they struggled to have any runner in the Derby.
I agree with Mike’s asessment.
I have no problem with the entering and running of a pacemaker who connections tell everyone is going to make the running for a horse in the same ownership- a genuine pace adds to the spectacle of a good race.
I do have a problem with a stable entering mutiple horses who act in concert to affect the running of the race by dramatic changes of pace hence compromising their own chances. They in my view are not being ridden on their merits and I’ll be disappointed if the powers-that-be don’t have something to say to APOB about the tactics used in Saturday’s race.
I’m far from sure that Ryan Moore was on the best ground on the winner but his horse was able to run at a more even pace which was decisive, along with his like of some cut in the ground.
Moore’s interview on RUK was fascinating. He is obviously a jockey who thinks deeply about his job and has a great understanding of the horses he rides- his comment that he doesn’t think Leopardstown’s short straight would suit NNC showed that.I do have a problem with a stable entering mutiple horses who act in concert to affect the running of the race by dramatic changes of pace hence compromising their own chances. They in my view are not being ridden on their merits and I’ll be disappointed if the powers-that-be don’t have something to say to APOB about the tactics used in Saturday’s race.
Here I go again…
If Yellowstone’s chances were compromised by how he was ridden; if he wasn’t being ridden on his merits, how come he produced a career best performance?
I reckon that the way the race panned out he was advantaged by being in front when the sprint to the line off a slow pace began. I for one think he will be shown to have been flattered by his proximity to the principals on Saturday.
That does not change the fact that he and Yellowstone were in the race primarily to try and help a stablemate and were not (in my opinion) ridden to give themselves the best chance to win.
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