Dispatches C4 – Britain's High Street Gamble

[Eclipse First]

Joe Stalin anyone?

Michael O’Leary???

If he was put in charge then presumably jockeys would have to pay for any weight they carried during a race.

[Steeplechasing]

Joe Stalin anyone?

Michael O’Leary???

If he was put in charge then presumably jockeys would have to pay for any weight they carried during a race.

And the horse would need a wee wallet tucked in its girth-strap so it could pay the starter for headwear:

Blinkers: 10 Euro
Hood: 15 Euro
Visor: 20 Euro
Earplugs: 5 Euro unless you buy Ryanair ‘earplugs-for-life’ at a bargain 99 Euro.

Two minutes late to the stalls, you are sent back to the paddock.

"Race at our London Track!" (Epsom)
"Go RyanRace Glasgow!" (Hamilton)
"Take advantage of RyanRace Manchester!" (Haydock)

More seriously, Mr O’Leary would be an excellent choice. With him at the controls, things would never be up in the air.

[Meerkat]

Meerkat – thank you for providing those figures from your shop – which made interesting reading.

Do you see less punters win on the FOBTS, say, compared to three years ago? Do you see any unusual patterns? That a machine is either on suck mode or dump mode?

Would it be fair to say, that the way the machine plays can affect the way a percentage is reached?

The hypothesis being: That if a FOBT machine was programmed to shaft punters continuously and then throw in a big win or streak, thus making it more addictive IMHO, would that not prove the machine is not random? It is surely homologous with a fruit machine?

I thought Dispatches was OK – could have been a bit more investigation into how FOBTs work both mechanically and psychologically – but I guess until there is proof – no journalist would want to take the risk of questioning their legality.

Zip

Hi getzippy,

Just to answer the questions you have raised in you post.

I would definitely say that there are many more customers winning on the machines now than in the past, however that point must be qualified by the fact that there are many many more people playing them now than then. It is difficult to state exactly on a like for like basis whether there are more, less or the same number of payouts per number of players. At an educated guess I would honestly say that the number is pretty much standard. It must be remembered though that the number of receipts coming to the counter is not a true reflection of the machine payout, because if a customer elects not to print a receipt at the time of winning, then there is a very real possibility of the customer reinvesting those winnings.
To clarify the figures I gave in my first post equate to the total winnings

I don’t think the way the machine plays affects the way the percentage is reached, indeed it is much more the way the customer plays that will affect the payout. We have customers who will play the roulette very carefully, covering most numbers on the board to guarantee some form of return while putting more money on their "special" numbers for a bigger win. While these machines are random, playing this way will make the percentage payout that little bit higher due to the machine not winning all the staked money. A customer who plays on the outside bets and simply plays red and black will increase or decrease the percentage payout faster, especially at higher stakes.
It should also be noted that the slot games on the machines do payout a fixed percentage over a large number of games, and indeed pay out a higher percentage the higher the customers stake is.

E.G.
25p stake 88% payout
50p stake 92% payout
£1. stake 94% payout
£2. stake 95% payout

These are all regulated and the machines must payout this amount over a set number of games. I know on the old fruit machines the payout percentage had to be achieved over a rolling 10000 plays, I am not sure if it is the same for the slots on the FOBT’s.

Finally I thought Dispatches was incredibly poor. For those of us on the other side of the counter it told us nothing new. I thought it was sensationalistic journalism at a very low level. They tried to show that these machines, and under age gambling were major problems. My views on the machines are documented earlier in this thread, however I will state clearly now that certainly in the large area I work in under age gambling is tightly controlled. Shops are regularly age tested by a company called Market Force who send in 18-20 year old mystery shoppers to assess whether the staff ID them and the way in which it is done. Ladbrokes regularly achieve a pass rate of over 80% which is by far the highest in the industry and compares favourably with other high street retailers and supermarkets.
I always wonder when programmes like this are on what was left behind on the cutting room floor. Editing is one of the most powerful ways to deliver the message that suits the needs of the producers.

[Getzippy]

Thanks for that, Meerkat.

We are all agreed the fruit machines are not random? The sequences they pay are within their set payout boundaries and are pre-programmed to occur when it wants to pay a win.

I can’t knock what you say about the roulette – we would need the honest opinion of other shop anagers and the figures to compare and contrast.

I still feel the way the machine plays is more important than the way the punter plays.

My hypothesis meant that no matter what bet the punter placed, they would either hit the hot patch or get totally shafted. So whether they place a spread of bets totaling £20 or £10 on two numbers – the machine would pay out/or not to hit it’s percentage at that time.

Zip

[Meerkat]

Thanks for that, Meerkat.

We are all agreed the fruit machines are not random? The sequences they pay are within their set payout boundaries and are pre-programmed to occur when it wants to pay a win.

I can’t knock what you say about the roulette – we would need the honest opinion of other shop anagers and the figures to compare and contrast.

I still feel the way the machine plays is more important than the way the punter plays.

My hypothesis meant that no matter what bet the punter placed, they would either hit the hot patch or get totally shafted. So whether they place a spread of bets totaling £20 or £10 on two numbers – the machine would pay out/or not to hit it’s percentage at that time.

Zip

Yes fruit machines and electronic fruit machines are set to a designated percentage payout level. Roulette is a random number game and is in reality no different to virtual racing which is also a random number game with the result displayed as a horse race rather than a wheel and ball.

[Author]

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