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Maybe so, if you include the far east as well as the near east.Is Japan in the east?
It’s no great surprise what happened in Dubai – they care very little about human rights so why should they care about the welfare of horses?
You can also bet any money you like the local press in Dubai will be writing absolutely nothing critical about events at Sheikh Mohammed’s playground.
Seems a tad harsh if I may say so. The Maktoum family have pumped billions into British horseracing, and where once they came in for criticism because of "unpronouncable horse names", and "buying" success to the exclusion of the traditional well established British owner breeders, as recently as last year it was being considered in the RP whether flat racing in this country could survive the financial demise of Sheikh Mohammed.
The Maktoum’s have, imo, shown immense respect for the tradition and history of the sport in this country, and it was no accident they selected the historic Stanley House, from where the great Hyperion was sent out, and the Moulton Paddocks Estate (where the legendary Ormonde once stood as a stallion) as their training bases. They also continued to support the St Leger and Ascot Gold at a time when the "modernists" wanted to abolish them.
I personally recall with immense awe the sight of Sheikh Mohammed holding Dubai Millenium’s head in his arms during an interview with Claire Balding, and displaying an incredible affinity with and affection for the great horse. I find it very difficult to accept your suggestion that they have little regard for horse welfare.
What happened on Saturday at Meydan was an unfortunate equine tragedy. In the heat of the moment a decision was made by the racecourse executive which was the wrong one. I am no expert on these matters, but the three fatalities occurred when the horses had not yet come under any real pressure so I doubt the exertions of running half the race (without coming under any pressure) and then re-running the same half, again without any pressure being applied, was the contributory factor.
An equine tragedy of this magnitude has never happened on World Cup night before. I am unaware of it ever happening on a single day of the Carnival meeting before – though I am happy to be corrected. Assuming for the moment that I am correct, it is surely safe to say this was a very regrettable one off incident which should not be used to make sweeping, ill informed generalisations about racing in Dubai, nor unfounded personal criticism of the Maktoums.
Sadly the white man knows nothing about the culture of the desert.Neither the Arabs the Persians nor the Zionists understand the human rights issue.Their culture is of the desert where survival and entertainment is vastly different from the West.The discovery of oil only enhanced the difference.The oversized yachts and the overweight owners from Saudi at Monte Carlo showc where their interests lie.The inprisonment of the Palastinians shows who cares about people,nobody in the arab world nor the prison guards who do the inprisonment.So when it comes to horses don’t be surprised.
And we could yet see a Mormon President of the USA. The way mothers are not allowed to see their children get married. Children encouraged to turn away from their non-believing parents. Bullying, etc…
Arabs, Persians and Zionists are not the only ones out of touch with human rights.
As for "overweight owners", just who is the most overweight Nation?
Value Is EverythingAIC, I wouldn’t underestimate Planteur. He wasn’t right when he finished behind Rweilding and So You Think in the Prince of Wales’ at Ascot. There’s no way So You Think is vastly superior to him. He’s beaten Rewilding and last year’s Arc favorite Sarafina comfortably in the past.
Let me tell you what the problem is – you people are looking for reasons to forgive horses that SYT has beaten in the past, or you discredit his victories saying the horses he beat were not at their best. But when SYT races below his best it is irrefutable proof of Aussie racing’s inferior stamina.
My opinion is when you race SYT on turf over his preferred distances he is a world beater – and you saw that in the UK last season.
Continue to race him on dirt or synthetic and you’ll see him lose 5-6 lengths.
I was with European connections of the Dubai Gold Cup runners and they all wanted to re-run the race. After so much planning and effort had been given to getting the horses to the DGC this wasn’t suprising.
The horses had only gone 6 furlongs, of a two mile race, and pulled up quickly once they realised the race had been stopped. The organisers put the welfare of the stricken horse and jockey at the forefront of their actions and did well to void the race so quickly.
The horses were hardly given more of a workout than if they had done a false start.
They were washed down and returned to the receiving barn – 4 1/2 hours before the re-run. They all had to pass a vet inspection before they were allowed to re-run and the owners/trainer were given the option to scratch if they wanted.
Let me tell you what the problem is – you people are looking for reasons to forgive horses that SYT has beaten in the past, or you discredit his victories saying the horses he beat were not at their best. But when SYT races below his best it is irrefutable proof of Aussie racing’s inferior stamina.
My opinion is when you race SYT on turf over his preferred distances he is a
world beater – and you saw that in the UK last season
.
Continue to race him on dirt or synthetic and you’ll see him lose 5-6 lengths.
AIC,
I agree that for whatever reason (synthetic, reappearance, travelling all good excuses) So You Think did not run to form in Dubai. Should not be marked down for that defeat.SYT’s a
good
Group 1 winner in Europe and may be an "
Australasian beater
", but no "
World beater
".
How can what happened in UK prove he’s a "World beater"?
In Australia SYT was very consistent and I believe he was consistent last season too.
Looking at three races last year:September 3 Leopardstown
: Gave 3 lbs (sex allowance) and beat Snow Fairy
½
a length in Irish Champion (1m2f good).
October 2 Longchamp
: Gave 3 lbs, finished
½
length behind Snow Fairy in Arc De Triomphe (1m4f good). Possibly a little (and I mean just a little) below form due to either extended trip or being held up too far off the pace.
October 15 Ascot
: Gave 3 lbs, finished
½
length in front of Snow Fairy in British Champion (1m2f good). This time Snow Fairy not getting the best of runs.
So
how do
you think
those two horses ran each race AIC? ie How far below form was each of those two horses in each race?
Surely the
evidence
suggests SYT can only be rated
at most 4 lbs ahead of Snow Fairy
(just
1 lb
taking the sex allowance off)? And that Prince Of Wales, Arc and British Champion winners; Rewilding, Danedream and Cirrus Des Aigles
deserve
to be rated
superior
?
Value Is EverythingSo You Think won the Eclipse. He was ridden on the bridle until asked to make a brief challenge when he surged past the especially trained and prepared with a pace maker Workforce.He was kept to the rail by the pacemaker of Workforce until that horse had to give way.Then Heffernan pounced and the race was over.He has had different jockeys since but he has never been ridded from behind,on the bridle, since Heffernan rode him.
"AIC" wrote: Let me tell you what the problem is – you people are looking for reasons to forgive horses that SYT has beaten in the past, or you discredit his victories saying the horses he beat were not at their best. But when SYT races below his best it is irrefutable proof of Aussie racing’s inferior stamina.
I think the fairest races to judge So You Think on are the Prince of Wales, Eclipse, Irish Champion Stakes and English Champion Stakes. It is obvious from these races that he’s undoubtedly a Group 1 horse, but a world beater he is not. I thought he may have run slightly below his best in the Prince of Wales (only slightly), but as Ginger said there’s not much between So You Think and Snow Fairy, another Group 1 performer.
Let’s forget about his runs at the Breeders Cup and Dubai World Cup if you wish. He didn’t seem at his best in either. However on all known other form he’s not the world beater you say he is. Not once have I ever commented on the standard of Australian racing here so sound like you are the one with the problem.
Planteur was well fancied to by many to shake him up in the Prince of Wales but he ran below form. That is near certain imo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPxs0Qh72kY
0.30 – 0.42Ok so we’re dithering about terminology now – let’s just say in my mind if a horse can win multiple open class WFA group 1 races in Australia, England, Ireland, and probably most other countries in the world so long as he’s handled correctly, then I believe the term world beater is quite reasonable.
I have not called him the greatest middle distance galloper of all time. There were a few here in Australia that talked a bit of rubbish but no doubt (as in UK) much of that could be attributed to hyping a stud career. I always thought he was about at similar level as Sunline, Makybe Diva, Saintly, and just slightly inferior to Northerly and Might and Power. That means he’s still a gun WFA galloper but not the greatest horse of all time if you know what I mean.
Kenh wrote
Someone needs to kick Barzalona up the rear and get him to stop this ludicrous standing up in stirrups and celebrating 50 yards before the line.
Couldn’t agree more. Seems like highly irresponsible behaviour to me with millions of dollars worth of horseflesh beneath him.
I shudder to imagine the reception he would have received from a trainer such as the late Ryan Price!I find the hypocrisy quite amazing. A horse fractures his leg in a flat race over 2 miles and people are getting upset. The horses that die during the jumps season far outweighs anything that happens during the flat season. A lot of flat horses have broken or fractured legs in major races. Ruffian in 1975 was a good example and I’m sure hundreds have since but for a lot of people that have got on the soapbox and then go on the moral high ground and slam Sheikh Mohammed and Dubai racing is disgraceful. Shame, shame, shame.
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