The home of intelligent horse racing discussion
The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

Derby winner rating

Home Forums Horse Racing Derby winner rating

Viewing 17 posts - 1 through 17 (of 40 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #11659
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8992

    What do we think the Derby winning performance of Sea The Stars will attract in terms of official rating.

    124 for me.

    #232726
    Himself
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3777

    127

    Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning

    #232757
    Tourbillon
    Participant
    • Total Posts 91

    131

    #232762
    Ugly Mare
    Member
    • Total Posts 1294

    A not very controversial 124 is the official view.

    Despite winning the 2 classics I think he’s beaten a mediocre bunch, but it highlights his versatility. O’Brien’s all finishing in a heap, hardly a great amongst any of them, so I think he’s a bit overrated at that figure.

    Zarkava fans must be reeling still, what with Le Havre on Sunday, she could have beaten this lot on 3 legs.

    #232763
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Le Havre, maybe, but Sea The Stars?

    I don’t think so somehow.

    #232778
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8992

    Zarkava Vs Sea The Stars over 10 furlongs would be worth watching. Unfortunately for us their only chance of a meeting is in the breeding shed.

    #232786
    Aidan
    Member
    • Total Posts 1198

    A not very controversial 124 is the official view.

    Despite winning the 2 classics I think he’s beaten a mediocre bunch, but it highlights his versatility. O’Brien’s all finishing in a heap, hardly a great amongst any of them, so I think he’s a bit overrated at that figure.

    Zarkava fans must be reeling still, what with Le Havre on Sunday, she could have beaten this lot on 3 legs.

    Come on guys….a bunched finish after a slowly run race? What do you expect?

    Sea The Stars is clearly going to hit the 130ish mark if not higher by the end of the season over 10 furlongs while there is every chance that one or two of the Ballydoyle horses will make a huge step forward on The Curragh or else where once they get a strongly run 12 furlong race ala Dylan Thomas and co.

    #232795
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Sea The Stars is clearly going to hit the 130ish mark if not higher by the end of the season over 10 furlongs

    Assuming he’s going to improve for the drop back in trip to 10f is some leap of faith, considering that none of his siblings did?

    #232799
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8992

    Quite Reet but the way he won the Guineas suggests he has plenty speed to cope with the best over 10F.

    #232800
    Aidan
    Member
    • Total Posts 1198

    Sea The Stars is clearly going to hit the 130ish mark if not higher by the end of the season over 10 furlongs

    Assuming he’s going to improve for the drop back in trip to 10f is some leap of faith, considering that none of his siblings did?

    It’s so obvious I hate to say it – em none of his siblings won a Guineas!

    #232807
    ricky lake
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 2999

    126 for me , will probably end up 130ish at end of season , a true champion and a pleasure to watch

    cheers

    Ricky

    ps the runner up in the guineas has gone up a lot in my estimation now

    #232812
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    It’s so obvious I hate to say it – em none of his siblings won a Guineas!

    Nashwan, Nijinsky, and Royal Palace, all did the Guineas/Derby double – all 3 were subsequently beaten at 10f.
    I’m not saying he’s not a very good horse, so were Motivator and Authorized at the same stage of their careers, and probably with a large P against their names also; what I am saying is that he isn’t yet the second coming, and it’s presumptive to suggest he’s going to improve 7lbs on what he’s achieved already

    #232823
    davidjohnson
    Member
    • Total Posts 4491

    reet raises a valid point in that the horse is being hailed as the second coming when as of yet his form doesn’t back it up. He may well prove it to be the case, that he’s a real top-notcher, but from a price perspective, he’s going to represent nothing at all in the way of value next time.

    Shame he won’t go to the King George after the Irish Derby, he’d ensure Conduit was very backable.

    #232829
    thedarkknight
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1299

    … the more I watch the Derby, the more I think Fame and Glory would have a serious chance (i.e not far off 50% chance) of beating Sea The Stars in a properly run 12f race.

    Do Ballydoyle realise just how badly they cocked this race up?

    #232832
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8992

    I’m not sure what they were thinking. Maybe they were trying to outwit Oxx by doing teh opposite of what everyone expected. Maybe they thought Sea The Stars might not settle off a slow pace (Kinane did say post-race that he was a bit concerned at one stage that Sea The Stars might be ‘over-racing’). Maybe they too were concerned at the stamina of their own chief hope(s).

    Whatever the thinking I found it baffling. IMO they should have taken the straightforward route of making it a true test.

    I sometimes think that ‘Team Ballydoyle’ overdo the tactics and try to be too clever with the use of multiple pacemakers, horses boxing others in, etc. Sometimes you feel they should just let them run.

    I overheard one very prominent English trainer, who shall remain nameless, having a conversation immediately post Derby which went along the lines of –

    Trainer – ‘it won well’
    Other person – ‘yes, they had it in a good position at the front, out of trouble’
    Trainer – ‘where

    they

    couldn’t bully him’

    Wonder who ‘they’ were? :?

    #232836
    thedarkknight
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1299

    James Willoughby made an excellent point today in the RP

    Had the Hawk Wing/High Chaparral Derby been run in the same manner as this year’s renewal, would we all have been hailing Hawk Wing as the "second coming" after an easy victory? Almost certainly imo…

    #232849
    Aidan
    Member
    • Total Posts 1198

    Do Ballydoyle realise just how badly they cocked this race up?

    Maybe tdk…but repeat it enough times in each post and they might just get it.

    Funnily enough I would have thought you would have been happy to see all their runners run on their merits….Golden Sword and Age Of Aquarius certainly were given rides to maximise their chances…pinching the following from another forum but:

    "Ballydoyle got it in the neck for supposedly sacrificing decent horses as pacemakers in order to help their chosen one win (Scorpion in Dylan Thomas’ King George).

    Ballydoyle got it in the neck for supposedly using pacemakers to screw with the pace of a race to disadvantage another runner (Authorized in the Eclipse).

    Now, Ballydoyle are getting it in the neck for not sacrificing Golden Sword’s chance in favour of other, more fancied runners, and not screwing with the pace in order to disadvantage Sea The Stars. "

    Were you not the one giving out about Scorpion and Dylan Thomas in the King George? And now you actually slate O’Brien for not doing the same thing in the Epsom Derby i.e ruin the chances of a perfectly sound contender in his own right for the sake of another preferable winner?

    One or the other tdk…one or the other…

Viewing 17 posts - 1 through 17 (of 40 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.