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Having watched the race a few times now, Denman’s performance gets better with each viewing. From five fences out, I counted Sam Thomas looking over his shoulder and between his legs (ala Piggott) five times, such was the effortless ease with which his mount was travelling.
The Lexus Chase at leopardstown is next engagement for the big horse. The rest (i.e. those brave enough to take him on) might as well stay at home.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Amazing – a racing forum with several thousand members but only one good judge of form.
AP
Almost as amazing as the "fact", if you listen to some, that every one of Denman’s 17 rivals was badly handicapped/out of form/no good.
Are we really meant to believe that connections of other horses didn’t fancy winning one of the most valuable handicaps of the season?
The Lexus Chase at leopardstown is next engagement for the big horse. The rest (i.e. those brave enough to take him on) might as well stay at home.
You’re probably right, Himself, but the Lexus would be interesting if The Listener took on Denman, as I suspect he will. As a bold-jumping front runner well suited by soft ground he would certainly test Denman’s fencing and would at least ensure he didn’t get his own way out front. You’d still expect Denman to beat him comfortably, though.
It’s lovely to speculate about the likely outcome at Cheltenham but it’s probably odds against that Denman, Exotic Dancer and Kauto Star will all turn up fit and well on the day.
Hope I’m wrong and it takes place as we would hope.…I’m glad that you’ve mentioned this as this is the reason I would have preferred to see Denman in the King George, his rightful place I think, rather than the Lexus.
What odds would you give one or other, Denman/KS getting injured between now and 3 months time?
Nice to imagine oneself as the owner of Denman, and I’m aware of the bonus that’s open to Kauto Star, but I would have to insist on a run against his stable companion. Cheltenham is not everything.I want to see the match this month, whilst both are on fire as this is a once in a lifetime occasion in NH. We never got to see it with Arkle/Flyingbolt, let’s hope we don’t miss out again.
perhaps Kempton wouldn’t suit Denman with his huge stride? whats fascinating is that Denman and Kauto Star are so different; you’d have to think that Denman being such a big old fashioned sort ot chaser could only get better [if he stays sound] I know everyone is talking of Gold Cups, but watching him on Saturday kept making me think of Crisp in the National but with the stamina of a three mile chaser….either way, I’m still awe struck by what I saw on Saturday, and no matter what people throw at me in terms of form lines etc. the fact is that I havn’t felt that way watching a race since I don’t know when!….
mo,
I think we have ‘Denmania’…lol…also I don’t think he’s entered in the King George in any case so it just isn’t going to happen, unfortunately.Denman was very impressive – it was such a shame Snowy Morning fell. Had he completed, it would have been easier to judge the form and decide just how much Denman had improved.
I’ve always maintained that, if a horse is in good form and good enough, the amount of weight he’s carrying is irrelevant – Denman was simply in a different league to a fairly modest bunch.
The weight he carried in conjunction with the conditions, the manner in which he won and the matter of it being his seasonal bow accumulated, made it a visually stunning victory.
His reward, as such, being joint-favourite for the Gold Cup is quite understandable, but I’m in no hurry to back him at that price. He hasn’t beaten anything the calibre of his stable companion.
The form of Kauto Star’s Betfair victory is still far superior. Defeating a proven top-class horse and pulling 18L clear of the third in a decent renewal.
If my life depended on a choice between the Nicholls’ pair then it would be Kauto Star, all the way. I can see the it now, Denman jumping Cheltenham two-out, Kauto Star and Exotic Dancer cruising up turning for home………….then what?
…. I can see the it now, Denman jumping Cheltenham two-out, Kauto Star and Exotic Dancer cruising up turning for home………….then what?
..this suggests you have them running on the old course,
in which case 2 of them most likely fall.
on the new course however,
"and this is it……this is the champion…this is the best we’ve seen for a long time……"what I meant was that maybe Paul Nicholls isn’t just keeping the horses apart for the obvious reasons but also because they suit different types of track, and the ground is more likely to be on the soft side in Ireland….and it gives us 3 months of anticipation…
…. I can see the it now, Denman jumping Cheltenham two-out, Kauto Star and Exotic Dancer cruising up turning for home………….then what?
..this suggests you have them running on the old course,
in which case 2 of them most likely fall.on the new course however,
"and this is it……this is the champion…this is the best we’ve seen for a long time……" Clerical error They were only following Denman not my fault..stupid horse.what I meant was that maybe Paul Nicholls isn’t just keeping the horses apart for the obvious reasons but also because they suit different types of track, and the ground is more likely to be on the soft side in Ireland….and it gives us 3 months of anticipation…
Denman is not as good as Kauto Star. FACT>
Since the start of the season NIcholls has been saying "cant wait to see Denman and Kauto Star race".
Denman is a gambling horse, as if he was any good there would be no need for all the subterfuge and misdirection associated with his run in the Henessy. Firstly his target was earlier in the season and he was pulled out ( we have to assume that he was being trained before this) then there was the small matter of a racecourse gallop. He was fit as a flea, make no mistake. Now if Denman was as good as Kauto Star, there would surely have been no need for all the shite that was evident before Saturdays race would there? Findlay could have just lumped on and to hell with the price.
Considering the nature of the debacle on Saturday, we must surely be asking ourselves which Bookmakers "the team" are in bed with. And would the shite that was spouted enough to put most people off, balance the book and turn a potential skinner into a winning book?
Can you Imagine the crap we "as Punters" are going to have to endure between now and March?
Repayment of "the debt" will more than likely begin over in Ireland in the Lexus chase. The excuses are already there fashioned and ready to brandish. IT WAS A POOR HENNESY, HE DIDNT HANDLE THE HEAVY.
The Listener beat a previous gold cup winner, A 10 times GROUP 1 WINNER and a horse who he beat by 15 1/2 lgth next time out run Kauto Star to 1/2 a length. HOWS THAT FOR A GAMBLE?, not some poxy handicap.
Can you Imagine the crap we "as Punters" are going to have to endure between now and March?
Funnily enough, I’m finding it very easy to imagine crap at this very moment.
I’m dissapointed some people are being critical about Denman’s performance on Saturday. How many times will they have to watch the race before they come to the same conclusion as the vast majority of us?, duh.
I have written anything that could be considered as being critical of his personal performance, I apologies
What some are saying, including myself, is he was absolutely brilliant but in the cold light of day beat very little.
There is nothing wrong with being truthful and not getting carried away like a kid in a candy shop.
We have all been fooled in the past by thinking a horse/horses were much better than they actually were.
Denman is yet to be put to the real test and that will come when he meets another top class animal at levels.
Until then he can only be thought of as a high class horse who has the potential of becoming a superstar.
I find it difficult to curb my imagination when talking about the horse and sometimes I get carried away thinking he just might be one of the greatest Steeplechasers of all time. He was that impressive.
But common sense prevails and tells me just how unlikely that is. For me he is going have to be more than special to defeat Kauto Star at Cheltenaham. You don’t have to be a nuclear scientist to work that one out.
This is not some Perth or Market Rasen winner we are talking about. Kauto is one of the best horses seen over fences in the last 40 years.
If Denman storms up the hill 10 lengths clear of Kauto and Ed he will be touted by many as the best of all time before they even get the tack off him
Many on here including myself can’t see that happening and I hardly think anyone is being critical by saying so
Happy Punting
I’ve remembered the last time I felt that way about watching a horse – it was Gloria Victis…
FOF,
For me, it doesn’t matter whether Denman wins a race again or not – it won’t take anything away from his performance on Saturday, and everyone is fully entitled to get carried away in my opinion. If Denman loses his next 20 races, it won’t mean that his performance last weekend wasn’t sensational, because it was IMO.
The horse put in a performance that according to official ratings, was not far short of what Kauto Star and Exotic Dancer could be expected to achieve.
This was from a horse who was having only his sixth start under rules in a chase, his first outside of novice company, his first run of the season, was not fully fit (we have no reason to not believe the trainer), was carrying 11-12 on soft ground – and yet annihilated his opposition.
I also don’t know how anyone can say that he didn’t beat much. Believe me, you don’t get weak fields (not saying you have implied this) in races where the first prize money alone is in excess of £85,000.
Mike
"………………..but in the cold light of day beat very little………………"
Fists, the Hennessy is probably the most competitive chase of the season, and Denman won by a "distance" and looked the winner a very long way out.
You are saying with the statement above that all the staying handicappers around at the moment are rubbish.
Kauto Star, Exotic Dancer are quite a bit better than the horses that Denman beat at Newbury but on that performance so is he. I don’t think the two stars could have been more impressive than Denman was in that race.
You have to remember that Exotic Dancer had an OR of 139 in the Paddy Power last year (top weight was Taranis OR 149), yet only just lost out to Kauto Star at level weights at Haydock last month.
IF Denman showed such improvement then surely there is a chance that he might match KS and ED in the Gold Cup.
Colin
"………………..but in the cold light of day beat very little………………"
Fists, the Hennessy is probably the most competitive chase of the season, and Denman won by a "distance" and looked the winner a very long way out.
You are saying with the statement above that all the staying handicappers around at the moment are rubbish.
Kauto Star, Exotic Dancer are quite a bit better than the horses that Denman beat at Newbury but on that performance so is he. I don’t think the two stars could have been more impressive than Denman was in that race.
You have to remember that Exotic Dancer had an OR of 139 in the Paddy Power last year (top weight was Taranis OR 149), yet only just lost out to Kauto Star at level weights at Haydock last month.
IF Denman showed such improvement then surely there is a chance that he might match KS and ED in the Gold Cup.
Colin
The Hennessy is usually Colin……..look at what he actaully beat not what was in the race and he beat nothing.
He’s fav because of potential and little to do with the form book…..He looked awesome and the bookies reacted on the assumption he can do what he did then to the Gold Cup field………..The Kauto race was a weird old race wouldn’t trust that form an inch….I doubt if ED has improved an ounce to be honest. He’s as good as he was and as good as he is going to get.
Lots of people saying Denman has improved, but he may well not be the only one.
I think Kauto has improved this season we just haven’t seen the best of him yet. You can rest assured he is well just now but 100% he is not.
Her’s hoping they all get to post fit and well….great race in prospect
Clerical error 
They were only following Denman not my fault..stupid horse.
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