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OMG…..I noticed something. Look at the replay.
When heff went up sides a bit clump of dirt flew up from the ground…a falsh patch of ground that stopped the horse getting into full stride earlier. Once he got into stride he was fine but that was interesting. Look at the dust fly from the turf…either a false patch or a old hoof print but was fairly remarkable if he did lose his footing and still win.
"Jonibake":16d7ksf7 wrote:
They gave him 133 so up 1 lb today. Fascinating debates but my wife just said "you’ve spent all ******* day WATCHING the horseracing – are you now going to spend all ******* night with your geeky friends WRITING about it?!!!"
That’s my cue to leave. Good night Geeky Friends!
Lol!!
Zip
So You Think won’t even be aimed at any group 1 mile and a half race in Europe, let alone the Arc – which would test his questionable stamina to the very limit. Pour Moi, Sarafina and Workforce, among others, would be too good for him anyway over that trip.
No, he will remain at 10f and his next race will probably be the Juddmonte at York – unless of course, Sir Henry decides to send Frankel there instead.
Questionable stamina!!! came from behind WF and was going away! SYT will beat WF at 12f he is the better horse,though some people can never admit they are wrong! WF was very game in defeat though.
I thought the tactics from the Workforce team were excellent and gave him every chance. A few furlongs out I reckoned he might stave off SYT.
I don’t think there is much at all between these two and Rewilding. Frankel is a different matter as I think he could have the superior speed to SYT over 10f.
I see no reason why SYT shouldn’t run well over 12f as the much- cited Melbourne Cup surely proves.
It’s just that other horses such as Workforce may enjoy that trip just as much.
King George could be a cracker and I’d love to see SYT there, but O’Brien does have other contenders as previous posters mentioned.
As for the Arc for the winner, why not?
No wonder horses this season apart from Frankel and Canford Cliffs? (OK – Goldikova is an all time great, granted.)
Zip
Questionable stamina!!! came from behind WF and was going away! SYT will beat WF at 12f he is the better horse,though some people can never admit they are wrong! WF was very game in defeat though.
Admit I’m wrong ? I tipped So You Think to win (check the thread) and backed him accordingly. Yes, he won as I expected he would, but he beat a 12 furlong specialist (albeit a champion 12f specialist )in Workforce, who is palpably not the same horse over ten furlongs.
So You Think (with tongue hanging out Shergar style ) was ridden hard to pass Workforce and won by half a length. I don’t think the O’Brien horse had that much left in the tank as you seem to think.
O’Brien wouldn’t dare take Workforce on over a mile and a half. In fact, I’m certain he won’t.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Wouldn’t dare take on WF over 12f! Keep on dreaming,keep on questioning SYT’S stamina,i only wish you were a bookmaker! Though that foray would be short lived!
"Himself" wrote:
O’Brien wouldn’t dare take Workforce on over a mile and a half. In fact, I’m certain he won’t.
I’d say it’s not so much a case of ‘he wouldn’t dare’, but with St Nic and Await The Dawn he simply doesn’t need to. Add Fame And Glory and he has some middle distance horses
Questionable stamina!!! came from behind WF and was going away! SYT will beat WF at 12f he is the better horse,though some people can never admit they are wrong! WF was very game in defeat though.
Admit I’m wrong ? I tipped So You Think to win (check the thread) and backed him accordingly. Yes, he won as I expected he would, but he beat a 12 furlong specialist (albeit a champion 12f specialist )in Workforce, who is palpably not the same horse over ten furlongs.
So You Think (with tongue hanging out Shergar style ) was ridden hard to pass Workforce and won by half a length. I don’t think the O’Brien horse had that much left in the tank as you seem to think.
O’Brien wouldn’t dare take Workforce on over a mile and a half. In fact, I’m certain he won’t.
I take your pt.
He is a little bit better than I expected, but show not much improvement from his Aus form.
No matter the commercial stallion factor/or stamina factor, Aidan wont risk this horse on 12f
Can’t believe people actually think SYT had improved fitness wise since Ascot. I never expected him too, and neither did I think he
had
to, to beat Workforce over 10f.
SYT settled better this time, had a smoother ride and maybe had a bit extra towards the end when needed as a result, but it still didn’t stop the horse hanging quite badly in behind WF and looking a very unlikely winner at one stage….
Full credit must go to Heffernan for pulling his mount out, gathering him up and driving him past Workforce, who ran a cracker.
SYT would be wise to steer clear of Workforce over 12f, as I think the the gallant loser today would still be running on at that same pace for another mile!
Sri Putra continues to run out of his skin once more, and the form looks solid.
Can’t believe people actually think SYT had improved fitness wise since Ascot. I never expected him too, and neither did I think he
had
to, to beat Workforce over 10f.
SYT settled better this time, had a smoother ride and maybe had a bit extra towards the end when needed as a result, but it still didn’t stop the horse hanging quite badly in behind WF and looking a very unlikely winner at one stage….
Full credit must go to Heffernan for pulling his mount out, gathering him up and driving him past Workforce, who ran a cracker.
SYT would be wise to steer clear of Workforce over 12f, as I think the the gallant loser today would still be running on at that same pace for another mile!
Sri Putra continues to run out of his skin once more, and the form looks solid.
I can’t see any different of fitness in SYT between POW and Eclipse, and the different are the pace and the tactic, which make the desirable result for SYT’s connection
Credit to Seamie for him holding the mount until two furlongs out, however, he almost makes an unwise move that try to squeeze out though the inside of Workforce that he will blocked by Ryan.
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Just some basic form-reading sense: The pace probably wasn’t as quick here as it was at Ascot. That would constrict the margins of defeat. Ground was also faster than at Ascot, which would do the same.
I’m not willing to say anything about whether or not SYT has improved just yet. Workforce was no wonderhorse at 3 but off that performance I think he’s improved from last year a bit. I’m glad people are recognizing Rewilding as a very good horse now.
Agree the pace wasn’t aa quick as Ascot (RP standard times have Chiberta King’s 2m listed race run relatively faster), and the ground at Sandown was appreciably quicker – which might just have made the difference in how SYT finished the races.
Workforce will almost certainly have improved since last season, though it’s unclear by how much until he gets his optimum circumstances. I’d venture that on all known form, he’s probably around 7lb better than today’s peformance over further/softer, and I just hope the ground is amenable to him taking in the King George.
SYT stayed better than I thought he would, but still has a mountain to climb (imo) to prove WF’s equal facing a stiffer test of stamina.ps Anyone who still thinks SMS’s stable is out of form, should maybe look at how they arrive at such conclusions.
This is what you wrote after Ascot Reet:
The proximity of the 66/1 Sri Putra in 3rd gives a guide to the worth of the form as a whole,
and I can’t ever see Rewilding being a threat to Workforce, either.
Sri Putra didn’t finish far behind Workforce either, did he?
And given the way Rewilding went past SYT at the Ascot, do you still think Rewilding’s ‘no threat’ to Workforce?
I’ve alway thought he’d be more than just a threat, personally, and so it could turn out!
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I’ll grant you he’s closer than I thought, OTS, though conditions (pace and ground) did favour Rewilding rather more than they did Workforce.
A few buckets of water:)Have a look at the Mackinnon Stakes to see if SYT can handle it,the track was rated slow but was actually heavy.Have a look on youtube,it is raining during the race and you can see pools of water everywhere.On the Mackinnon performance i would say he is the best wet tracker i have ever seen,never seen a horse go through the ground so smoothly, and well have a look at the acceleration at the furlong,amazing!
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Dear, oh dear, JG.
It isn’t just how a horse acts on the ground, but also the effect it has on his stamina.
Now tell me those courses are an equivalent test to Ascot and Sandown?Well I’ve just watched the race on youtube for the first time and wife/kids at the movies meant I was up and roaring at the screen coming down the home straight!
Very proud and happy that he has proven beyond doubt now that he is world class. Must admit the knocks on here crossed my mind as he went past Workforce and I yelled something along the lines of EAT THAT YOU FKERS or words to that effect.
Great runs by both SYT and Workforce and the 3rd horse ran well again as he did at Ascot.
Different story today SYT was well ridden and strong on the line. I personally think if he is ridden like this in the Arc he’s a huge chance as are Workforce and Rewilding it is going to be some race if they all turn up.
Great day for Australian racing today we’ve proven our middle distance champs are up with the best anywhere. Very proud and might go crack a stubbie now cheers boys woo hooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have no idea about the Pattern schedule in Australia, but it’s surely telling that So You Think’s only crack at further than 10f Down Under was in the Melbourne Cup. It’d be really nice of people to watch some replays of any Melbourne Cup and understand that it’s not ridden like a 2-mile race. It’s comical to say he finished 3rd in that so he must stay 2 miles. Good chance of him staying 12f, but surely telling he’s never been campaigned that far?
As for the Arc, what’s the point? His stud career beckons and he’ll have a very healthy start there, with customers no longer just from Australia and Kiwiland, but a fair few breeders will have made enquiries to Coolmore after yesterday’s race I’d have thought.
It’s also a dilemma for Coolmore. Why put all their eggs in a basket? They have half a dozen odd horses currently in training running over 10-12f who have a stud career to look forward to. Pour Moi will obviously be running there while we could see Recital turning up too.
St. Nick I reckon will run in the King George and then be sent off to America for the Joe Hirsch and then the BC Turf.
Await The Dawn will probably head for the Jockey Club Gold Cup on the same card as the Joe Hirsch and then the BC Classic.
Recital will go for the Irish Champion (and bid to give Montjeu his 1st Group 1 winner over shorter than 10 1/2f by a non-2yo), followed by the Arc or possibly the Champions’ Stakes.
Treasure Beach, I’m not sure. Woodbine International could be a target, but I don’t know what they’ll do with him. There’s nothing for him of any worth now until the Arc.
Seville apparently will be going for the GP de Paris which will probably be his last outing before the St. Leger.
And So You Think I think will now try to beat Frankel at York and then go down under for the Cox Plate, have another crack at the Melbourne Cup and then be retired.
Far more intelligent to throw them around the world and get 3 of them winning more Group 1s than running them all in the same race and only get 1 stallion.
It’s interesting to see how Workforce was ridden today. In all his previous races he was held-up or in the middle of the pack – the twice he was ridden closer to the pace (Ascot and Sandown) he was pulling hard. But today he was settled behind the pacemaker and didn’t pull at all. That surely tells us how quick So You Think is, that Ryan felt the need to try and outstay him and not get involved in a speed-battle.
I think far too much has been made of Stoute’s ‘form’. Trainers like Stoute don’t have bad form. They have good form and business as usual. He’s not got many good horses in his yard and it’s not as if they aren’t finishing their races. Just look at Cape Dollar in the 4.15 yesterday, flying at the end. You could’ve run the race 100 times and So You Think would’ve won every time. I was sure Workforce would win beforehand but I really cannot ‘defend’ him. He was beaten cosily by a very good horse, but only a very good horse and no more than that. Whack a tongue tie on him and he could be even better though. Disappointing however that a Derby and Arc winner couldn’t beat him, despite the distance.
And what’s more disappointing is that Rewilding, stuffed by Workforce at the 2 marker and even further at the finish at Epsom last year, managed to beat So You Think when Workforce couldn’t. You can read the form book over and over again, but it simply makes no sense. The Prince of Wales’ makes no sense and it makes even less sense after the Eclipse has made no sense.
I don’t mean to moan at all, but after the farcical stewards at Haydock today and the form making sod all sense in the Eclipse, betting on horse racing is beginning to become a lot more undesirable.
p.s. Crizzy, Longchamp is way more than 20 miles from Royer-Dupre’s yard. 40 at least
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