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I’m the one who used the words, questionable stamina, when referring to So You Think.
Taken out of his comfort zone, and racing over a mile and a half in Group 1 company, his stamina would be fully tested. That is my opinion, and I’m sticking to it.
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I’m the one who used the words, questionable stamina, when referring to So You Think.
Taken out of his comfort zone, and racing over a mile and a half in Group 1 company, his stamina would be fully tested. That is my opinion, and I’m sticking to it.
I think you’re bang on. Because a horse goes past another at ten furlongs does not mean it has more stamina it means it has more speed at the trip. In top class European races So You Think would be a ten furlong horse that can be effective at a mile and a mile and a half but a strongly run mile and a half would be a problem for him. If he goes over twelve furlongs I’d be running him on a sharp track. He has no chance in the Arc I’d be surprised to see him even go there.
I have So You Think running to 122 today. Its impossible to rate him MUCH higher unless you buy into Sri Putra running better than he ever has and given the number or runs he’s had in his career that is highly unlikely. Depends on what you rate Sri Putra I have him as a solid but exposed 114 horse.
So So You Think ran 122, Workforce 121, Sri Putra 114 and Snow Fairy 110?
The only one to run to form is Sri Putra according to you.
So You Think 4lbs below his best? Workforce 7lbs below his best? Snow Fairy 10lbs below her best?
Bit of a co-incidence that all the big guns ran so badly I think.
I have So You Think running to 122 today. Its impossible to rate him MUCH higher unless you buy into Sri Putra running better than he ever has and given the number or runs he’s had in his career that is highly unlikely. Depends on what you rate Sri Putra I have him as a solid but exposed 114 horse.
So So You Think ran 122, Workforce 121, Sri Putra 114 and Snow Fairy 110?
The only one to run to form is Sri Putra according to you.
So You Think 4lbs below his best? Workforce 7lbs below his best? Snow Fairy 10lbs below her best?
Bit of a co-incidence that all the big guns ran so badly I think.
Are you going by official ratings? I’m going by my ratings. Workforce has run a bit below his best which isn’t surprising at the trip and on the ground he could’ve done with it being soft today to bring his stamina into play. Snow Fairy clearly was below her best first time out. Sri Putra is rock solid and So You Think has run a mere pound behind his Ascot run.
First things first – a great race fought out by two great racehorses.
For me today there were no excuses for Workforce. He had the run of the race behind HIS pacemaker who clearly deliberately moved out approaching the bend as part of a plan. Workforce was sent for home early to try to play to his strengths and perhaps, after what happened at Royal Ascot, to a perceived weakness in SYT ie stamina.
2 out I thought Workforce would win by a couple of lengths but when SYT was really asked to quicken he did so brilliantly and was pulling away at the line. Pretty much the exact opposite of what I thought would happen!
There is no doubt in my mind that this was a different horse to the one at Royal Ascot so AOB was clearly telling the truth about his fitness that day.
I thought Workforce ran a fine race but was beaten by a faster animal. I doubt we will ever see a rematch as I can’t see SMS wanting to take on the winner again over 10f and I cant see SYT stepping up to 12f. I hope I’m wrong as a rematch would be great.
Make no mistake this was a superb performance from the winner and, even though I am Frankel’s number one fan, I would be very surprised if anything could beat SYT over 10f again.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I’m the one who used the words, questionable stamina, when referring to So You Think.
Taken out of his comfort zone, and racing over a mile and a half in Group 1 company, his stamina would be fully tested. That is my opinion, and I’m sticking to it.
I think you’re bang on. Because a horse goes past another at ten furlongs does not mean it has more stamina it means it has more speed at the trip. In top class European races So You Think would be a ten furlong horse that can be effective at a mile and a mile and a half but a strongly run mile and a half would be a problem for him. If he goes over twelve furlongs I’d be running him on a sharp track. He has no chance in the Arc I’d be surprised to see him even go there.
There is a big difference in saying you think a horse won’t win and saying it has no chance. With regard to So You Think in the Arc, do you think you are being a little bit foolish with you’re last sentence there?
Also I’d like to correct you. So You Think not only had too much speed for Workforce over ten furlongs, he also had superior stamina.
Himself – that is fair enough. The Arc would be a new test for So You Think, one he has not faced before. But I disagree. I think, based on what I’ve seen, stamina would not be an issue.
To say he has no chance in the Arc is stupid.
He ran 3rd over 2 miles in off top weight in the Melbourne Cup. He has a chance, its may not be his perfect trip but well see.
While it was a nice race to watch, it also killed any slight hope I had of witnessing a Sea The Stars, Zarkava or Harbinger out there this year. So You Think is quality Group 1 performer in his own right, but he clearly isn’t the wonderhorse he was being painted out as, nor is Wokforce for the matter. That said, that’s probably what makes the Sea the Stars, Zarkava etc… that little bit super special.
Anyway, my thoughts after this race – French winner in the Arc.
Whatever arguments about pace, ground, tactics, etc it seems that So You Think can beat Sri Putra by 5 or 6 lengths, as he has demonstrated in his last two races. It is a consistent line of form that says that Rewilding, So You Think and Workforce are within a pound or two of each other. No-one should be surprised if any of the three could beat the other two if the ground or tactics were suitable. They are all very good horses, but there is no consistent evidence to say that they are “once in a generation” great horses.
To Jonibake:
“There is no doubt in my mind that this was a different horse to the one at Royal Ascot so AOB was clearly telling the truth about his fitness that day. “
I would say: how did So You Think only beat Sri Putra by 5.5 lengths today instead of the 6 lengths at Ascot?
Sandown always has close finishes Marginal Value….you rarely see a Eclipse winner hack up.
If Sri Putra races against them again…it will be beaten futher than today i would hope from a form point of view.
Whatever arguments about pace, ground, tactics, etc it seems that So You Think can beat Sri Putra by 5 or 6 lengths, as he has demonstrated in his last two races. It is a consistent line of form that says that Rewilding, So You Think and Workforce are within a pound or two of each other. No-one should be surprised if any of the three could beat the other two if the ground or tactics were suitable. They are all very good horses, but there is no consistent evidence to say that they are “once in a generation” great horses.
To Jonibake:
“There is no doubt in my mind that this was a different horse to the one at Royal Ascot so AOB was clearly telling the truth about his fitness that day. “
I would say: how did So You Think only beat Sri Putra by 5.5 lengths today instead of the 6 lengths at Ascot?
Good question MV to be fair. I just got the impression that he saw out his race slightly better today no? He ran right through the line whereas he seemed to be tiring in the POW.
Would agree that there is not much between the three you mentioned but, as I said, would be surprised if SYT was beaten over 10f again.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
So You Think beat Sri Putra 6 lengths at Ascot.
So You Think beat Sri Putra 5 1/2 lengths at Sandown.
Sri Putra is a totally exposed 5 year old. I am willing to believe he ran a pound below form at Ascot but no more.
So You think is a top class genuine and consistent horse, but his form is also now exposed. I don’t see any evidence to suggest So You Think improved on Prince Of Wales form.I think it can be said now that So you Think is a better horse than Workforce at 10f. Had the Irish/Aussie/Kiwi horse beaten Sri Putra by further here than Ascot I’d agree that So You Think improved. But he didn’t. So it is possible Workforce is better at 12 furlongs and still has potential to improve at that trip.
Value Is EverythingIs it not possible that both improved on their Ascot running? Aidan O’Brien seemed certain he had So You Think in better form today than at Ascot. I think he did give a better performance today than at Ascot, as Jonibake has said he seemed to finish his race with more ease and to better effect. Plain and simply questioned were raised about his ability to stay 10f after the Prince Of Wales, now 12f doesn’t seem out of the question.
Heard the race callers say afterwards that you never (or rarely) see races at sandown where they smash by massive margins. So perhaps the 5 1/2L on Sri Putra here is in fact a more impressive gap than 6L in the POW? Could someone with more knowledge comment on this please.
So You Think beat Sri Putra 6 lengths at Ascot.
So You Think beat Sri Putra 5 1/2 lengths at Sandown.
Sri Putra is a totally exposed 5 year old. I am willing to believe he ran a pound below form at Ascot but no more.
So You think is a top class genuine and consistent horse, but his form is also now exposed. I don’t see any evidence to suggest So You Think improved on Prince Of Wales form.I think it can be said now that So you Think is a better horse than Workforce at 10f. Had the Irish/Aussie/Kiwi horse beaten Sri Putra by further here than Ascot I’d agree that So You Think improved. But he didn’t. So it is possible Workforce is better at 12 furlongs and still has potential to improve at that trip.
It’s not an exact science though is it Ginge? If it was it would be very easy. Like I said, the winner visually appeared to see this race out much better than Ascot.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
And just as a general opinion. I think people get too caught in looking at a specific other horse to spin their point of view. In the POW everyone ignored planteur and just said sri putra was releveant.
And I really think if that sandown stuff about not winning by as large of margins is true then it’s worth taking into account. And do you also consider the fact that maybe Sri Putra improved too? For me you need more than just a single horse to draw any serious conclusion.
Even the pace is not enough for Workforce
Even the ground is a bit quick for Workforce
Even Workforce came out a bit earlySo You Think is on upper hand and clear winner today!
But, running in the Arc is another matter, Giving 3Ibs to Americain(G2 stayer in Europe) is finishing third in Melbourne Cup is not a strong evidence to see he can stays well in the Arc.
The distance of Sri Putra beaten by SYT is not my concern, since the former never had a change to threaten the winner. The most important chance of SYT between POW and Eclipse is the tactic, not the form. Seamie adopted the way of typical Aussie/NZ/HK racing—sit behind the leader with cover. Unleash and see the daylight in 2F—made the best use of his limited stamina.
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