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I was looking at So You Think’s form and noticed he had never raced over more than 10f in Australia (excluding the Melbourne Cup which he was pretty much obliged to tackle for cultural and legacy reasons).
In Europe, there seems to be a feeling that he will be suited by 12f, in some quarters…maybe becasue we mostly associate High Chaparral at the 12f distance.
I am not familiar with the programme book in Australia…can I ask those who have knowledge on the programme down under…were there 12f races available at Group 1 that he passed on or was a 7f-10f campaign all that was available in Sept-Nov last year?
Thanksshaby,
Things are done differently in Oz. Trainers here use races as part of the training program for a horse’s final goal/s.
In answer to your question, not really. The only 2400m race is the Caulfield Cup, a G1 hcp. No point running him in that or else he may get a penalty for winning which would increase his weight for the Melbourne Cup. There is the Moonee Valley Cup over 2600m but no prestige there and it is a hcp also with the same risk of penalty. There is also the Geelong Cup which Americain & Media Puzzle both won enroute to their Melbourne Cup wins but they ran in them because they needed a penalty to ensure a start in the Melbourne Cup.
So You Think’s campaign last Oct-Nov was soley aimed at winning the Cox Plate G1 WFA 2040m and then the Melbourne Cup. By winning the WFA G1 & G2 races on the way, no penalty could be incurred for his Melbourne Cup weight.
The only 2 decent WFA G1 2400m in Australia are the Sandown Classic, run 2 weeks after the Melbourne Cup and the BMW Stakes run at Rosehill in March.
All of the Oct-Nov racing is aimed soley at 3 races, the Caulfield Cup, The Cox Plate & the Melbourne Cup.
I believe that Cummings always had the Melbourne Cup in the back of his mind with So You Think as Bart won’t have many more chances to add to his legacy, he’s getting on you know, around 82.
It is a shame that So You Think won’t be back to try for a third successive Cox Plate to equal the great Kingston Town as he would walk it in, not much talent beyond our sprinters at the moment.
Our staying ranks are putrid so a horse that can run a strong 2000m – 2400m can win the Melbourne Cup if they have a combination of the class & right weight.
I hope that clears up some of your queries & doesn’t add to them!
Thank you for your detailed reply marbine,
The rationale behind my question was to try to understand if Cummings, and now O’Brien, had any doubts about his ability to stay 12f (2400m) the evidence of this being that he had never run over the trip (barring the Cup) and had swerved 12f opportunities.
I think from your reply it is inconclusive given your explanation of the programme in Aus’ and also the fact that there are relatively few 12f opportunities for older horses in Europe until late July, compared to 10f Group 1s.
Would be interesting to see him at 12f though deep down I think he is a 10f horse (in European conditions)cheers
Personally, I believe Aidan O’Brien and I do not believe that the horse was fully tuned up at Ascot. I read an article 2 days before the race in which O’Brien said exactly what he said in the post race interview. This mainly consisted of "The horse has not been stepped up in his work I see no reason why he should be putting another 20l between himself and his work partners".
I think that SYT is an absoloute freak of a horse and the comments I have heard about the horse makes it seem as though this is a different kind of horse to any they have had at Ballydoyle for a while.
I know that Coolmore tend to over hype they’re horses but I genuinely believe they thought this horse was so good that he could win a Group 1 at Royal Ascot barely 3/4 fit.
I cannot wait to watch the race and I have made an investment on SYT this week as I think that his price with contract up to the race day and see him going off odds on before the race. If he does win the Eclipse you can be fairly certain you will never see odds against about this horse for the rest of its career. You can forgive a horse one bad race.
Does anybody have any clue who will be riding him yet? I know people are assuming Ryan Moore will be riding Workforce but has he actually come out in the press that he is definately taking that ride? Of the remainder I would like to see either Jamie Spencer given a go, or maybe even his old jockey Steve Arnold. I wouldn’t like to see Fallon on the horse personally.
Agree entirely ^ (I thought he was a lay at ascot albeit for the wrong reasons as things turned out, stated pre-race)
I’d add the key to assessing the race is Planteur (whom i backed). A top class 10f horse who rounded the bend quite smoothly he put down his challenge, ran to form, and was broken by So You Think down the straight.
Workforce against him over 10f on g/f? Great chance. His fans at Ascot just weren’t patient enough to wait for the right day imo. But taking on a Derby and Arc winner and up against a crack filly…hmmm
So You Think for me also,just think over ten he could well have to many gears for Workforce,as Cape Blanco did in last season’s Dante,although there may have been excuses for that defeat,just feel he is better at 12
Hope they both turn up and may the best horse win.- Total Posts 17716
Aiden O’Brien was very disappointed and not a little embarrassed after the defeat of So You Think at Royal Ascot. I’ve never seen him quite so upset, so he must think that So You Think is a very special horse. If you rate AOB as a trainer and if you value his opinion, you’ll probably be on SYT in the Eclipse and if you don’t, you won’t.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/ … 6073892021
The article I was refering to in my previous post. It has actually warmed me to the horse. I thought it was one of them horses that you would never be able to back, going off at 2-13, 1-7 and 4-11… It was nice to get some 13-8 this time around.
Aidan will have him right!
Interesting article Young Mick, still think SYT has it all to prove, Prince of Wales was a tough race, how much would it of taken out of him? If he was not 100% would that race have done the job getting him fitter or does he still need work at home? Workforce will be nicely fresh for this.
Workforce looks to me to have the speed to cope with 10f, Group 1’s are usually run at a fair clip anyway. Admittedly 12 is his best trip but I don’t think he would of been fully wound up for his Dante run and showed good acceleration chasing down Poet over 10 but agree he would not want the ground to firm next week.
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Does this mean that Joseph won’t be riding him in the Eclipse? Hope the pacemaker does a better job this time.
Workforce drift is very worrying.
Stoutey hasn’t had a winner since the day of his five-timer on 11th June. Though several have run well in defeat, it is not up to his usual strike rate. Might there be a minor virus in the yard?
A similar run of poor form preceded Workforce’s poor effort in the King George last year. Although three year olds are more susceptible to minor viruses than older horses, Workforce now being a year older.
Probability is Workforce will run and will run well on Saturday. But it would not be a surprise if he doesn’t turn up or doesn’t run well. And that has to be taken account of in calculations.
Value Is EverythingIf Jamie Spencer rides to last years Irish Champion Stakes form Cape Blanco must have a great chance.
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It will be a no contest lads, SYT will win head in his chest. His last race, he got beat cause he went way too soon ( Frankel done the same thing ). His last trainer Cummings said this as well. The market prices tell it all…. as always.
- Total Posts 17716
It will be a no contest lads, SYT will win head in his chest. His last race, he got beat cause he went way too soon ( Frankel done the same thing ). His last trainer Cummings said this as well. The market prices tell it all…. as always.
Filr that excuse in the same bin as "he wasn’t trained for the race"
In each of his last 3 gp1 wins in Ausralia, he’s led between 1.5 & 2.5f out and gone clear of his field. At Ascot, he was under the cosh after being in the lead for less, and simply didn’t see out the trip. The ground may be slightly more in his favour on Saturday, but he’s meeting a whole lot more horse than Rewilding, and with Confront to ensure an honest race, I doubt he’ll last home again.
For the 4th time in his last 5 races, Workforce is available at a much better price than he should be – 4 Xmas’s in 13 months, thanks to the hype merchants.
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