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Crowded House
: Flattered momenterily in the Derby. Many think this could be his trip which it probably is but he needs a drop in class more.
I don’t think CH needs a drop in class at all. He clearly has the ability and class but there are excuses for his defeats this season. Personally, I feel that he didn’t stay the Derby distance, never quite handled the track but needed the run to put him straight again.
Oh and J Spencer rode him as though he was taught at the GSSR … the Greville Starkey School of Riding
The Eclipse should be ideal for CH.
Who’s trying to analyse this race already?
This isn’t a forecast-friendly race like the British Classics, no? We need barriers, we need rider engagements, and most importantly we need to know Coolmore’s plans for their representative + pacemakers if necessary.
We need to know the Prince of Wales’/Hardwicke/Queen Anne declarations, and we probably need to know SMS’s plans for his representative as well + pacemakers if necessary.
There’s just too much that can happen between now and the five-day stage to even consider dissecting this race. But … don’t let me be the one to stop your enthusiasm!
PS. When is Eagle Mountain returning to the track?
Myles, I agree hard to study this race too hard until after the Prince of Wales however we all like to consider how the 3yos will go against their elders – hence the interest.
EM Ok but not working yet and will hopefully have big end of season targets like the Breeders’ Cup and Hong Kong again.
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Crowded House
: Flattered momenterily in the Derby. Many think this could be his trip which it probably is but he needs a drop in class more.
I don’t think CH needs a drop in class at all. He clearly has the ability and class but there are excuses for his defeats this season. Personally, I feel that he didn’t stay the Derby distance, never quite handled the track but needed the run to put him straight again.
Oh and J Spencer rode him as though he was taught at the GSSR … the Greville Starkey School of RidingThe Eclipse should be ideal for CH.
Meehan has more excuses that Billy Bunter has when caught red handed nicking cakes. Crowded House ran past the beaten horses and he took forever to do that. Even if he needed the race he should have been much closer at the 2f marker than he got. He must have been all of 10 lengths behind and it wasn’t until after the 2f marker he made up a little bit of ground that was exagerated by those going backwards.
I think he’d be a mile out of his class against his elders and if he makes up 6 lengths and beats Rip Van Winkle in the Eclipse I’ll eat Billy Bunter left ass cheek
What could make things worse is if the ground in Ireland is heavy Sea the Stars could go for the race.Have to laugh at Skybet they have dropped Sea the Stars into the Eclipse at 5/4
Should get their betting licence suspended for that one 
Not only would the weather have to be in your favour but he may have to face Conduit who is surely a lot better than any the horses he faced at Epsom. Bet365 go 5/2 which is at least worth a chance if avaiable nearer around a week before the race. At least you would have a decent chance at guessing what the chances of bad ground in Ireland were.
John Oxx said that Sea The Stars’ next race is ground dependent. The Irish Derby is the preferred option, but should The Curragh come up soft, then STS could well be heading to Sandown for The Eclipse, where invariably the ground is on the good side.
Assuming Sea The Stars by-passes The Eclipse, then Sir Michael Stoute’s main contender will do for me – unless of course, Rip Van Winkle shows up.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
If Rip Van Winkle shows up, I will be taking him on, he still finished disappointing with the speed finish, and he is becoming pretty predictable, he is an athletic sort but I think he stilll hasn’t filled out yet and I’d be waiting more of the time in autumn we will see the best of him where could turn out to be a genuine BC Classic horse in time, he isn’t ready for the older horses just yet. Granted the older horses aren’t really the fastest speed merchants out there, but Doctor Freemantle is a tough sort and will be hard to beat, the Betfair market probably sees him as a non runner at present but it be more feasible to send Conduit to the Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud since they see The Arc as the main aim.
It will be Doctor Freemantle for me if he shows up he will be great value too.
Barring of course a whisper gets out Sea The Stars goes to Sandown.
28May09 Sandown (10Gd ,RPR111)
We’ll probably look to drop him back to a mile. As he gets older he is showing more speed than stamina, so I’ve put him in the Sussex Stakes – John Gosden
I’ve been put away by someone on this Forum who said that Gosden knew what he was doing, keeping Pipedreamer to 10f. Am now going to search for the bugger. . . .
Well here is one of them . . .
You dont need to be a breeding expert to see Pipedreamer is perfectly
suited to 11/4m, he would be run off his feet at a mile, there is more chance of him going up in trip,rather than down!- Total Posts 17716
Doctor Freemantle is entered for the Hardwick 1m4f wouldn’t that be a better option for him. Especially if Youzmain goes to France for a repeat.
I doubt if DF would have the speed to win an Eclipse. He did win at Chester but by the skin of his teeth and from a horse who finished well behind Cima de Triomphe and an unfit Conduit at Sandown.
I’d rather see Doctor Fremantle go to 1m2f than Conduit if The Arc is the target, maybe Doctor Fremantle may not have the class for the Eclipse but he is a tough sort who is hard to pass, Stoute has a good knack of making his older horses hard to pass and he will be value if he lines up, can’t see Stoute lining him up for a G2 when he has had a G3.
That said it would be a hopeful gamble, but none the less a value punt if the 25/1 is anything to go by.
Meehan has more excuses that Billy Bunter has when caught red handed nicking cakes. Crowded House ran past the beaten horses and he took forever to do that. Even if he needed the race he should have been much closer at the 2f marker than he got. He must have been all of 10 lengths behind and it wasn’t until after the 2f marker he made up a little bit of ground that was exagerated by those going backwards.
I think he’d be a mile out of his class against his elders and if he makes up 6 lengths and beats Rip Van Winkle in the Eclipse I’ll eat Billy Bunter left ass cheek
What could make things worse is if the ground in Ireland is heavy Sea the Stars could go for the race.Three furlongs out, CH was about 6 lengths adrift of STS. At the finishing line, he was just 8 and a quarter lengths behind STS. So STS took, roughly, a mediocre 2 and a quarter lengths off CH during the last three furlongs.
You’re showing the same kind of negativity about CH as you did last year with Raven’s Pass. Just watch Crowded House come the Eclipse
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As expected Red… Dr Freemantle as expected goes for the Hardwick and and should just about win it. I sincerely doubt he well heading for the Eclipse but could go to France next.
Conduit did a good piece of easy work with Lang Shining yesterday on the Al Bahathri Polytrack and is apparantly great form and SMS has apparantly now confirmed in public he is heading for the Eclipse. I’m sure it will pop up on the RP website in due course.
Reet I hope you had plenty on mate and grabbed some of that 14.s
Mind you if Sea the Stars misses the Irish because of bad ground and turns up he would take some beating getting an allowance. I’m on a good part of my bet ew but if I was SMS and the French race has an easy look to it, I might bottle it and go there.
So please guys if you live in Ireland no rain dancing please
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Hills are going 11/10 Sea the Stars and 3/1 Conduit This is in complete contrast to the KG and QE betting where they go 6/4 Conduit and 5/1 Sea The Stars.
I’ll be very happy if Conduit get a place if he wins I promise I’ll be as unbearable as possible
Getting 11lbs it is no surprise Sea the Stars is fav.
However this is not Fame and Glory or Delegator who will be coming at him and Conduit showed unbelievable speed when winning the Breeders Cup. Sea the Stars has looked brilliant but this horse is a different proposition all together.
He showed this trip is no problem to him when just pipped by Cima De Triomphe (May miss this and go to Newmarket) and according to SMS needed the run.
I just hope this doesn’t cut up too badly and we get a true run race.
Anyone backing Sea the Stars at 11/10 before Thursday or Friday for this should check themselves into the nearest mental home. Should it rain later in the week and the ground is any worse than good Oxx will pull him out. If he isn’t willing to take on 3 year olds he’s already beaten hands down on softish ground he certainly won’t want to take Conduit on.
It’s a gamble and I’m already on at huge odds but Conduit could end up odds on if the weather takes a turn for the worse. The 3/1 will gone in a flash.
Forgetting finacial gain from a racing poit of view I hope they both run. It’s sure to be a cracker and I am pretty confident Conduit will come out on top.
Here’s my thinking;
Tartan Bearer is a better horse over 10f than Conduit. I don’t understand why else Tartan Bearer would run in the PoW and Conduit in the Eclipse, worth roughly half the value. Never On Sunday would almost certainly beat Tartan Bearer if the PoW were run again, not to mention there are 7 yards extra in the Eclipse
Obviously Sea The Stars is the horse to beat but I still really like my 110s on Never On Sunday and I reckon with a bit of cut, he may well prove to be a much bigger threat than people think.
p.s. Is there any chance of Conduit skipping the Eclipse to go straight for the King George?
I don’t think Tartan Bearer is as good a horse as conduit over any trip or on any ground.
I think Sea The Stars will be very difficult to beat in the Eclipse. Rip Van Winkle is interesting back at ten furlongs, could run a big race.
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He has 21 days between the two races and but for being badly bumped would have won at Ascot with a week less between races last season. I must admit I was surprised when I was first told he was going for this but when I sat down and thought about it he has a helluva turn of foot.
SMS is not known for changing his mind and confirmed couple of weeks ago he was going to run and again said so when asked at Ascot.
I never knew J-C Rouget had any intentions of running Never on Sunday in the Eclipse though. I thought his next race was supposed to be on his home soil?, but I suppose that could change if the ground comes up soft.
I don’t think SMS would agree with you on Tartan Bearer being better than Conduit at any distance he’s at least 10lbs better than him IMO.
Nashwan and Mtoto both did the double and they are hard acts to follow but SMS hold Conduit in very high regard and loves to win this, hence he is sending his best horse to try.
I never knew J-C Rouget had any intentions of running Never on Sunday in the Eclipse though. I thought his next race was supposed to be on his home soil?, but I suppose that could change if the ground comes up soft.
Of course I’m presuming that he’ll run, but I don’t see any possible Group 1s for him in France for the rest of the season (unless he runs in the Marois and/or Moulin) and the only Group 2 for him is the Prix Dollar in October over 1950m.
IMO only campaign for him is Eclipse – Juddmonte/Irish Champion – Champion Stakes.
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