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This race is dedicated to all you doubting Thomas”s that for some strange reason failed to see the untapped potential of the MASTERCRAFTSMAN This fellow is crying out for 11/4m and it really wont matter what the ground is as top class horses will go on anything!
I would love to see the Master turn up in July for this on good ground and
see the likes of Pipedreamer 17 represent the older brigade as i have no doubt whatsoever that the Master is still improving! The St James Palace stakes is his next target by all accounts but the thought of him running around Ascots turning mile with its short straight concern me! I have backed him at 34 and again at 12! This fellow will get 11/2m in time too!Cormack, any chance of changing the thread title to ‘The Mastercraftsman ‘shrine”?
What on earth is the point of a Coral Eclipse thread if you’re only going to mention one horse that hasn’t even run over further than a mile yet? IMO your interests would be better served playing Starters Orders 3 than betting.
And no, Mastercraftsman won’t get 1m 4f in time.
ZARKAVA, that name flatters you by the way! the idea is to encourage you to think for yourself and perhaps use a bit of foresight! Do you not have an idea of an Eclipse sort?
ZARKAVA, that name flatters you by the way! the idea is to encourage you to think for yourself and perhaps use a bit of foresight! Do you not have an idea of an Eclipse sort?
I wouldn’t recommend getting into any conflicts about Zarkava with me, I really wouldn’t. You’d be getting into an ‘argument’ that you wouldn’t win if you had 9 lives, so just don’t.
Well I actually agree that Mastercraftsman is a great Eclipse prospect at the moment, but I’d be extremely foolish to nail my sail to that mast at the moment. Given their lack of milers this season, it’d be extremely easy for them to run either Westphalia or Rip Van Winkle. They’d both be a lot more likely to get the trip at the moment than MCM. Giant’s Causeway took a similar route on his way to victory in 2000, although he had a prep in the Athasi and ran in the St. James’.
However, the ‘Hawk Wing’-type, Rip Van Winkle, could quite easily be outstayed in the Derby by something, and they’ll have no choice but to drop him in trip.
My trends are saying that there are still 13 contenders for the race, MCM included, but I won’t be making any firm choices until after the Prince of Wales’. Even then there’ll probably be 4 or 5 selections on my trends.
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What qualifies you to comment on the suitability of Zarkava as a name for this particular member, TAPK?
Does the fact that they can put their point across using reasoned opinion, and without resorting to juvenile self-congratulation, offend you in some way? Or, perhaps more likely, does it bring all too close the idea that you’re nothing but a pain in the arse who feels the need to ‘shout’ his puerile and inconsidered ideals in order that someone might take any sort of notice?
What Zarkava has posted in his/her previous post outstrips the idiotic ramblings – to which you are now inextricably linked – by some way and the manner of your initial response is a depressing marker for the ‘quality’ of your input.
I thought Fist was big-headed when he first arrived, but you’re in a league all on your own chap.
Now that’s out of the way, may I apologise on the forum’s behalf, Zarkava. My recent contributions to the forum have been, it has to be said, less than fragrant, but as the old adage goes ‘when you have a scab, you just have to pick at it’. What is it about trends that particularly interests you and does the Eclipse lend itself well to your approach?
What is it about trends that particularly interests you and does the Eclipse lend itself well to your approach?
I find them to be more eye-opening than simply looking at the form. It’s interesting to see how different races have better records with certain types of runners, and it also puts me off having bets in certain races which appear to be generally weak or muddling affairs. Some trends I can’t explain (Actually I try and shy away from those. Several races
seemingly
have a bias against fillies, but how does the gender of a horse determine how well he/she’ll run?), but the vast majority of my trends have reasoning behind them.
Easily the most interesting thing about them though is the genius that is Aidan O’Brien. He breaks trends for fun, and I don’t really think you can fully appreciate how good he really is without looking at trends. 3 examples;
a) 10 of the last 14 Eclipse winners had won that season. 3 of the 4 who hadn’t were trained by O’Brien.
b) 13 of the last 14 Irish 1000 Guineas winners had either run in the 1000 Guineas or won LTO. Imagine did neither and won. 75 other runners with the same criteria against them tried – just 8 placed.
c) From 19 Arc runners to have had 7 or more starts that season, 17 were unplaced, Borgia finished a distant 3rd and Dylan Thomas won.
The man defies belief. There are many more incredible things he’s done but those are just off the top of my head. I’ve not done proper Irish Derby trends yet but he’s had some incredible finishing positions from horses with 0 talent and form. Roosevelt for example. How the hell did this 150/1 shot, who finished 4th in a Classic Trial at Gowran Park as a prep, beat home the Derby runner-up, the horse that would win the St. Leger 2 months later and a Racing Post Trophy runner-up? He did it the following year too. Tycoon. 150/1 shot, hadn’t run since finishing 5th in the Jean Luc, and he beat home the 2nd, 3rd and 4th from the Derby. Even Bashkirov last year. Ok he wasn’t placed, but he got damn close to the front 3.
In terms of how well they apply to the Eclipse, it’s all very well looking back at the last 14 runnings and finding patterns and trends, but at the end of the day, I don’t think you can be sure until you apply them beforehand and see where they get you.
I’ve had a good start wtoday with Mastercraftsman (big deal, Aidan O’Brien-trained 6/4F having his 2nd start of the season), but let’s see what happens with Lahaleeb later on.
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This race is dedicated to all you doubting Thomas"s that for some strange reason failed to see the untapped potential of the
MASTERCRAFTSMAN
This fellow is crying out for 11/4m and it really wont matter what the ground is as top class horses will go on anything!
I would love to see the Master turn up in July for this on good ground and
see the likes of Pipedreamer 17 represent the older brigade as i have no doubt whatsoever that the Master is still improving! The St James Palace stakes is his next target by all accounts but the thought of him running around Ascots turning mile with its short straight concern me! I have backed him at 34 and again at 12! This fellow will get 11/2m in time too!I was one of the Doubting Thomas’s but any credibility you gained from being right just flew out the window.
There isn’t a hope in hell of him running in the Eclipse but you back him anyway.
1m in heavy is not 1m2f on good it’s just an indication he might get the trip.
Problem is different ground, faster pace ,horses with a good turn of foot become bigger dangers and most importantly Mastercraftsman is not guaranteed to get the trip.
Why would AOB risk running him in that when he can go to the James palace fully confident the horse gets the trip?
AOB’s Eclipse runners will be one or two of those who don’t get the trip at Epsom. Good horses can be dropped back in trip and do well, but it’s near impossibe to do well with a horse who simply doesn’t stay the distance.
I was going to write that there will be a good chance of cut in the ground as the Eclipse is held on Ladies’ Singles Final Day (aka re-arranged Men’s Semi-Final Day), but I don’t know what effect the new roof will have on the propensity to rain.
I wouldn’t recommend getting into any conflicts about Zarkava with me, I really wouldn’t. You’d be getting into an ‘argument’ that you wouldn’t win if you had 9 lives, so just don’t.
You said the wrong thing there then! Zarkava was an exceptional filly,
but a tad temperamental for my liking, her race record of 7 runs 7 wins,
is a reflection of a well planned team behind her, but 6 of her 7 victories
were at Longchamp and the other at Chantilly! She raced against the less than exceptional Conference call 3 times, beating her by 21/2l once as a
2yo and again by 21/2l at 3, both times the ground was quite testing!
In the french 1000gns she brushed her rival aside even easier than before
on much better ground! Goldikova finished 2nd that day and excuses could be made for her performance! The pair then met again in the French
Oaks where Zarkava beat Goldikova comfortably, Goldikova never stayed
the 1m 3f trip though We never saw Zarkava again until the Arc trial where
she beat the decent filly Dar re mi and finally she won the Arc beating the
grandest bridesmaid and again unlucky in running Youmzain! I got the impression Zarkava was bred just to win the Arc, her whole life was geared to doing just that and she did, like the exceptional filly she was! Dancing
Brave would have eaten her up and spat her out though! He kicked ass in this country as well as France!I wouldn’t recommend getting into any conflicts about Zarkava with me, I really wouldn’t. You’d be getting into an ‘argument’ that you wouldn’t win if you had 9 lives, so just don’t.
You said the wrong thing there then! Zarkava was an exceptional filly,
but a tad temperamental for my liking, her race record of 7 runs 7 wins,
is a reflection of a well planned team behind her, but 6 of her 7 victories
were at Longchamp and the other at Chantilly! She raced against the less than exceptional Conference call 3 times, beating her by 21/2l once as a
2yo and again by 21/2l at 3, both times the ground was quite testing!
In the french 1000gns she brushed her rival aside even easier than before
on much better ground! Goldikova finished 2nd that day and excuses could be made for her performance! The pair then met again in the French
Oaks where Zarkava beat Goldikova comfortably, Goldikova never stayed
the 1m 3f trip though We never saw Zarkava again until the Arc trial where
she beat the decent filly Dar re mi and finally she won the Arc beating the
grandest bridesmaid and again unlucky in running Youmzain! I got the impression Zarkava was bred just to win the Arc, her whole life was geared to doing just that and she did, like the exceptional filly she was! Dancing
Brave would have eaten her up and spat her out though! He kicked ass in this country as well as France!As someone who saw 5 of her 7 races in the flesh (I went and worked in France for 3 months just to watch her run in the Grotte, Pouliches + Diane), as someone who backed her to win the Arc on the day the market opened and continued to back her throughout the year, and as someone who said she’d win the Arc hours after she won the Marcel Boussac, I really have no idea why you’re telling me that.
And she’d have beaten any horse in the world in any sort of form on Arc day. To do what she did from the draw she had after the start she had on a track like that in a race that strong (only her and Lady Marian came off the pace to win), she was a phenomenal horse and I’ll feel privileged for the rest of my life to have seen her and followed her around. Comfortably one of the greatest Arc winners in history.
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Amen to that
TAPK, you are pathetic.
We have a well-informed newcomer who has brought much needed new insight and perspective to the Forum in the past week, and you go out of your way to insult him.
I admit I don’t know much about horses, which is why I am always keen to read what people like Bulwark and Fist have to say. Despite my lack of insight, over the winter I made an attempt to contribute to the Big Race Discussions, but for the past couple of months I have made a conscious attempt not to contribute as I don’t want to be held up to ridicule by the likes of you.
Carry on like you are, and you’ll be the only person left on the Forum.
Gerald
TAPK, you are pathetic.
We have a well-informed newcomer who has brought much needed new insight and perspective to the Forum in the past week, and you go out of your way to insult him.
I admit I don’t know much about horses, which is why I am always keen to read what people like Bulwark and Fist have to say. Despite my lack of insight, over the winter I made an attempt to contribute to the Big Race Discussions, but for the past couple of months I have made a conscious attempt not to contribute as I don’t want to be held up to ridicule by the likes of you.
Carry on like you are, and you’ll be the only person left on the Forum.
Gerald
GERALD, I reckon your him is a her mate! and as for last man standing
my money would be on Fist! he has an answer to everything! i only respond to these people the same way they speak to me!TAPK, you are pathetic.
We have a well-informed newcomer who has brought much needed new insight and perspective to the Forum in the past week, and you go out of your way to insult him.
I admit I don’t know much about horses, which is why I am always keen to read what people like Bulwark and Fist have to say. Despite my lack of insight, over the winter I made an attempt to contribute to the Big Race Discussions, but for the past couple of months I have made a conscious attempt not to contribute as I don’t want to be held up to ridicule by the likes of you.
Carry on like you are, and you’ll be the only person left on the Forum.
Gerald
GERALD,
I reckon your him is a her mate!
and as for last man standing
my money would be on Fist! he has an answer to everything!i only respond to these people the same way they speak to me!
To the part in bold – Eh?
To the part in italics – No, you don’t.
GERALD,
I reckon your him is a her mate!
and as for last man standing
my money would be on Fist! he has an answer to everything!i only respond to these people the same way they speak to me!
To the part in bold – Eh?
Eh? you mean you dont know either!
Well if you are a bloke calling yourself after a filly and you are looking forward to your foal by Dalakhani then I am The Ante-Post Queen!
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