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“lol why even bother interviewing the jockey and asking those questions after that, sums up why this sport is almost impossible unless you’re an insider. Glad I’m not betting on the horses these days!”
A blind man could’ve seen this plot lets be honest
Why wasn’t everyone on him
“Why the handicapper dropped him isn’t easy to see.”
Surely the stewards/bha fault not the handicapper?
The handicapper has to just handicap them on their runs
He can’t be just saying that was a non trier I’m not dropping him
That needs to come from higher up
That was an Irish plot, which get landed with regularity, everyone would be cheering it on.
Its not about the pace of the races. Watch him in the Lanzarote this season which is another cavalry charge which should suit him, doesn’t try a yard. The only thing I would say is he’s not the only one of ours who plays the system, Christian Williams was doing it for years with his staying chasers. One clue I’ve noticed with Skelton is whenever they jock up that Charlie Todd chap, always go off at massive odds, always dropped out stone last. It’ll happen with Le Milos tomorrow too you watch.
Stewards report:
“The winner, LANGER DAN (IRE) appeared to show improved form compared with its previous run at Kempton on the 13 January where the gelding finished fourteenth of nineteen runners beaten 31 lengths.
The Stewards noted the explanation given by Dan Skelton that having had a poor start to the winter campaign the gelding had been scoped and was found to have ulcers and had benefitted from having received treatment for the stomach ulcers on this occasion.
Skelton further explained that LANGER DAN (IRE) had bled on his previous outing at Kempton, which had been reported.
LANGER DAN (IRE) was routine tested.”
I thought it was because of the better prize money, bigger odds, with more chance of getting on and a handicap mark that gave Dan wet dreams for weeks
Blackbeard to conquer the World
The issue with the stewards report, and their belief (it appears) that nowt untoward happened, seems somewhat contradicted by one, Harry Skelton’s, immediate post-race interview where he said ….and i paraphrase, twice…
“….the plan was hatched over last 12 months…”
And
“….we ran him ‘cold’ in last few races..”
The only thing I would say in fairness to the horse here because its not his fault they do this with him every season is he won that today by miles and even if they’d left his mark on the 147 he went up to after last years race I think he’d have gone pretty close. If it wasn’t for a certain Galopin Des Champs we’d be talking about a 3 time Cheltenham festival winner so regardless of what we may or may not think of the trainers methods, the horse still has to go and do it and he did so in style today.
Look, it’s done & dusted. Fair play to Skelton I say. He broke no rules. Messers Pipe & Martin among others were masters of the smoke & mirrors in handicaps back in the day.
Anyway, I had a look back at the race this evening and marvelled at how R. Blackmore on Ballyadam came from the rear to cut through the pack like an arrow. What a jockey she is !
We can all be wise and latch on to these ‘plots’ when they arise but this is the pinnacle of jumps racing. Anyone new to racing looking to improve the way they study form etc would assume there is zero point in trying. We should be encouraging people into the game not confusing and alienating them.
“Why the handicapper dropped him isn’t easy to see.”
Surely the stewards/bha fault not the handicapper?
The handicapper has to just handicap them on their runs
He can’t be just saying that was a non trier I’m not dropping him
——————————————————————–The handicapper does not have to drop a mark, FF.
The horse was not a non-trier. It was doing its best in the circumstances it found itself running in.
It’s just that he was not fit on the first start of the season…
Then ran in a couple of 2m races which were far too short for the horse to run to anything like its best form.
Then bled at right handed Kempton…
Whereas everyone – the handicapper included – knows Langer Dan is best in the Spring on left handed courses…So why does the handicapper drop the horse at all when it is racing in conditions that – fact – don’t suit the horse?
Not only was Langer Dan dropped, but he was dropped to the mark he won the race off last year.
The problem with our handicapper is he wants to adjust marks after every run. That is stupid when the horse is not running in races it has any hope of performing well in.
Should a Grand National winner be dropped after finishing down the field in the Nunthorpe?
Value Is EverythingWhen I first rediscovered racing and, along with that the betting side, the thing that fascinated me the most was looking for a plot horse of some kind. Given that we don’t get to access the kind of inside information that owners get it’s up to punters to look outside the box sometimes. Then again I don’t put lots of money on horses.
This particular ‘plot’ was an obvious one anyway, its not as if the horse has steamed in from 33/1 to his SP, everyone has been joking about Langer Dan since the season started and I recall making a comment after the Lanzarote where yes he did bleed but him bleeding wasn’t the reason he didn’t run his race, obviously didn’t help but he had that jockey on who is being repeatedly jocked up by the Skelton’s when its not their day and he was never put in the race. He got hampered at one stage but he was never going to be competitive there. A horse with Langer Dan’s credentials should not be going off at 66/1 unless somebody beforehand knows he is not there to win. I agree with Ginger that when a horse is blatantly not running a race which suits they shouldn’t adjust the mark but again I think he’d have won off 150 yesterday, it was just his day and when he’s on his day he’s a very good horse in these circumstances.
I don’t think anyone is objecting to plots as such. But with this horse he has looked like a non tryer on more than one occasion and the handicapper should not have been taken in.
Of course, I am kicking myself for not spotting what Skelton was up to when it looks so obvious now but there is no way this horse should have run off the same handicap rating. Given the way he won, he would still have been competitive with at least a few pounds more.
I think plots at the festival aren’t good Cork because we’re probably trying to use the shop windows of Cheltenham and Aintree to get new blood interested. How do you explain to a newbie that yes by all means start off learning about the form book but on occasions you’ll get something like Langer Dan where you just ignore everything he’s done in the past 12 months because connections aren’t trying to win. To a newbie that screams that the sport which has people betting on it is as bent as you like.
I know what you mean but there is a race at the festival today where connections are almost invited to plot. It used to be even more blatant when they only had to finish sixth in one of the qualifiers to get in.
“How do you explain to a newbie that yes by all means start off learning about the form book but on occasions you’ll get something like Langer Dan where you just ignore everything he’s done in the past 12 months because connections aren’t trying to win. To a newbie that screams that the sport which has people betting on it is as bent as you like”.
—————————————————Trainers must be able to run horses at distances others don’t believe they are suited by. Some horses do prove a trainer right in bringing them back and some are proved right in going up in trip.
However, if a trainer does run a horse in conditions the form book says should not suit… Then it should not be dropped at all by the handicapper…
“The form” IS “in the form book”, TTM. It says Langer Dan was unfit on reappearance, ran in two races requiring insufficient stamina, then bled. It virtually tells punters to all but ignore those runs.
Just wish I’d looked at the race beforehand.
Value Is Everything
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