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Clearly the guy has a problem and I wonder if jail is the right option for him – he should be in hospital.
As for those who purchased the horses I have to say I have very little sympathy with them – if they were prepared to lay out those sums without clearly doing any due diligence then they only have themselves to blame for getting their fingers burnt.
If the report is accurate and we are talking the Daily Mail here, the most striking aspect is the naivety of the "victims".
What a tragic story. I don’t know how much Lesley and Keith Baker knew of their son’s transactions, though with him living under the same roof I wonder if there were outward signs they could have picked up on that he was in need of some pastoral care, before things really got out of hand. Rather easier said than done, I expect.
Incidentally,
whose mother Lesley is a small-time horse trainer
I presume that’s the Mrs L P Baker that trains Rathcannon Beauty, who with an OR of just 59 is one of the lowliest hurdlers in training at present. At least the above might explain why the mare hasn’t been quite as omnipresent in south coast novice and selling hurdles recently as last season.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
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Looks like Charlie couldn’t see any further than the dollar signs floating in front of his eyes.
Looks like Charlie couldn’t see any further than the dollar signs floating in front of his eyes.
I would say that’s exactly what happened.
I’ve had dealings with Mr Baker, and I can confirm that all your observations are correct. He and his freind (girl, but not girlfreind) are nutcases of the highest order.
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Must be very embarrassing for Charlie. When he goes to the Sales he’ll hear giggling around every corner
horse dealing at all levels is still very much based on trust and gentlemans’ agreements..Kim Bailey was warning people about this man ages ago.
Anyone willing to enter into business transactions without conducting due diligence wants their heads examined.
I would have thought Messrs Cecil and Gordon-Watson would be a little more savvy.
I found it amazing that Cecil & Gordon-Watson were so stupid to bid for this guy who they had never met. As a trainer you have plenty of nutters ringing up and after a while you realise who the genuine ones are. But to spend that sort of money based on phone calls?
I once had a guy ring me in response to an advert saying he wanted the filly ( I made him pay a non- refundable 10% deposit which arrived in a brown envelope). He then said he was looking for 4 horses including one to run in the Triumph Hurdle. After speaking to him a few times, I pressed 1471 but the number came up as "we do not have the callers number" so I thought – prison or nuthouse. A couple of days later, I got a call back from the HRA (off the record) who warned me he was in a nuthouse having been sent down for 18 months for syndicate fraud & threats to another trainer – he dug a grave in their drive and put a headstone saying RIP & the trainers name. While inside he had tried to hire a hitman to kill the judge who sent him there plus the Chief Constable of Yorkshire. Needless to say he is there for quite a while now. When you speak to these nutters, it is fairly easy to trip them up and anyone in their right mind would do some digging first especially as its so easy with the Internet now. Or at least get some sort of financial references for them.I would suspect that Messrs Watson and Cecil are accustomed to doing business on trust in what is a wheeling/dealing trade. Most agents and trainers would take on clients based on trust and I’d guess that rigourous due diligence is not the norm. Perhaps it should be though! Not an expert on this though so I could be very wrong (one of the beauties of this forum being that you can spout opinionated drivel on just about any aspect you care to).
Also, it’s not very helpful to label people such as Mr Baker as ‘nutcases’ or to use the term ‘nuthouse’. On the basis of the story I too would question whether jail is the correct place for him. (There I go, spouting opinionated drivel while not in possession of the facts yet again).
He was also apparently associated with South East point to pointing as a former clerk of the scales as there is a write up on their website.
I do agree that jail is not the best place for him and it is not fair to call them "nutters". My wife thinks I am a "nutter" for going jumping in the cold and rain especially point to pointing. We’ve all got our quirky bits
I feel sorry for the man but have no sympathy for Charlie Gordon Watson and Henry Cecil. They have been around this game long enough to surely be wary of a stranger ringing them up with big money to spend. I’d certainly be very wary – but that could be due to me being a typical cautious Scot.
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I would suspect that Messrs Watson and Cecil are accustomed to doing business on trust in what is a wheeling/dealing trade. Most agents and trainers would take on clients based on trust and I’d guess that rigourous due diligence is not the norm. Perhaps it should be though! Not an expert on this though so I could be very wrong (one of the beauties of this forum being that you can spout opinionated drivel on just about any aspect you care to).
Cormack the disclaimer is noted but you make them sound so noble.
WhenI say ‘them’ I refer of course to the occupations (agent and trainer) and not the individuals.
I once had a guy ring me in response to an advert saying he wanted the filly ( I made him pay a non- refundable 10% deposit which arrived in a brown envelope). He then said he was looking for 4 horses including one to run in the Triumph Hurdle. After speaking to him a few times, I pressed 1471 but the number came up as "we do not have the callers number" so I thought – prison or nuthouse. A couple of days later, I got a call back from the HRA (off the record) who warned me he was in a nuthouse having been sent down for 18 months for syndicate fraud & threats to another trainer – he dug a grave in their drive and put a headstone saying RIP & the trainers name. While inside he had tried to hire a hitman to kill the judge who sent him there plus the Chief Constable of Yorkshire. Needless to say he is there for quite a while now. When you speak to these nutters, it is fairly easy to trip them up and anyone in their right mind would do some digging first especially as its so easy with the Internet now. Or at least get some sort of financial references for them.
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