Conflict of interest at the BHA?

[cormack15]

I very much doubt the horses at the rear are travelling at a significantly slower speed than front runners when they hit the first fence and those at the front may have the additional advantage of having clear sight of the obstacle.

Also, I don’t KNOW this, it’d need to be checked, but I’d guess that the horses have stopped accelerating long before that fence. In other words,the fence would have to be placed much, much nearer the start for its placement to have the effect of reducing the speed of the runners when they reach it. And if you did that it’d probably be counter-productive in that jockeys would be even more urgent in their efforts to attain a prominent position.

[eddie case]

Surprising Paul Struthers put his name to that, as jockeys have poured scorn on the initiative did he consult them?

Revives memories of the initial whip revision when the jockeys were deceived by the authorities and not helped by their own PJA.

As Gingertipster points out jockeys usually have a little talking to the weighing room prior to the race, why make it so public this time a few days before the big race?

Is it really practical to ask every single jockey to go a false pace at a go slow in a competitive race such as the Grand National for the first 90 secs or so based on some questionable stats, after having moved the start for questionable reasons?

I give up hope with these clowns.

[cormack15]

I note that the timing devices carried by jockeys in last year’s event indicated that leader Giles Cross was travelling at 5mph faster than Sunnyhillboy at the first. As BOTH jumped it safely I’m not sure that is relevant.

[cormack15]

Last four year’s first fence casualties

2012 – Viking Blond – racing prominently (in front half dozen)
2011 – That’s Rhythm – racing in rear
2010 – Eric’s Charm – very prominent (leading)
2009 – Himalayan Trail – not prominent but slightly ahead of mid div
2009 – Golden Flight – mid div

Roughly 160 horses, 5 fallers, mixture of locations in terms of position in race at time of fall.

Not sure how it looks going further back.

[Gingertipster]

To take last year’s race as somehow proof jockeys should take it steady to the first fence – is convenient. Had they made 2011 as the example it would encourage jockeys to go quicker to the first.

Where the advantage lay in position depends entirely in the pace of the race. If they go too quickly early-on it will favour those held up. If they go a slowish early pace it will favour those ridden fairly prominently. Even with a medium pace it has been difficult to win from right out the back.

If the BHA/PJA are telling jockeys to go slower to the first (and jockeys obey) it will favour those ridden prominently to an even greater extent.

Jockeys riding horses needing to race prominently to produce their best can not afford to take it easy at the start, otherwise they run the risk of being unable to achieve a good early position; horse sulks and the race is effectively over. Even horses who only prefur racing promiently in a normal race may not run to their full ability in amongst a pack of 40 horses.

Here are the last 15 runnings of the Grand National with the first in-running comment in Racing Post Results.

2012
Neptune Collonges

Mid-div

Sunnyhillboy

Held up mid-div

Seabass

Tracked leaders

Cappa Bleu

Mid-div

2011
Ballabriggs

With leaders

Oscar Time

Tracked leaders

Don’t Push It

Mid-div

State Of Play

Mid-div

2010
Don’t Push It

Mid-div

Black Appalache

With leaders

State Of Play

Prominent

Big Fella Thanks

tracked leaders

2009
Mon Mome

Towards rear

Comply Or Die

Mid-div

My Will

Mid-div

State Of Play

Prominent

2008
Comply Or Die

Tracked leaders

King Johns Castle

Held up mid-div

Snowy Morning

Chased leaders

Slim Pickings Held up mid-div

2007
Silver Birch

Went prominent 12th

McKelvey

Towards rear

Slim Pickings

Mid-div

Philson Run

Chased leaders

2006
Numbersixvalverdie

Held up

Hedgehunter

With leaders

Clan Royal

Held up

Nil Desperandum

Mid-div

2005
Hedgehunter

In touch

Royal Auclair

Hampered 1st, in touch

Simply Gifted

Held up midfield

It Takes Time

Held up midfield

2004
Amberleigh House

Behind

Clan Royal

Headway halfway

Lord Atterbury

Mistakes, prominent

Monty’s Pass

Held up in touch

2003
Monty’s Pass

Always Prominent

Supreme Glory

Behind

Amberleigh House

Midfield

Gunner Welburn

Blundered first in touch

2002
Bindaree

Joined leaders 15th

What’s Up Boys

Behind

Blowing Wind

Tracked leaders

Kingsmark

Midfield

2001
Red Marauder

Mistakes, blundered and lost place

Smarty

Joined leaders 11th

Blowing Wind

With leaders

Papillon

Joined leaders 8th

2000
Papillon

Always prominent

Mely Moss

Held up

Nickee Dee

Mistakes, chased leaders

Brave Highlandder

Prominent

1999
Bobbyjo

Tracked leaders

Blue Charm

Prominent

Call It A Day

Midfield

Addington Boy

Rear division

1998
Earth Summit

Always chasing leaders

Suny Bay

Held up

Samlee

Held up

St Mellion Fairway

Soon chasing leaders

Value Is Everything

[BlackGold]

It’s also going to depend on what the ground is like. If it turns up heavy of course they’re going to go slower.

Iirc, isn’t part of the reason for shortening the distance to the first fence also to get the horses away from the crowd noise? Hopefully to help keep them calmer and not so inclined to take off at the start.

[eddie case]

Following the furore after the likes of the Sky Lantern incident there appears to have been a change in policy regards stewards enquiries.

Despite Graham Cunningham in his column today applauding the stewards for changing the results in recent incidents at Kempton, Beverley and Fontwell I would have to disagree because there is no reason to believe the results wouldn’t have remained unchanged a few months ago, what has changed?

While at Fontwell the first past the post probably deserved to lose the race should he have lost it under the current rules. There was certainly a case for the horse losing it due to dangerous riding but once the stewards decided it wasn’t that how could they disqualify it?

No one could be sure the second would have won, it was probably 50/50 and the benefit of doubt according to the rules should go to the first past the post as it should have done at Beverley.

Jamie Stier stated after Sky Lantern that our rules are the best and the benefit of doubt should go to the first past the post but this appears now not to be happening, any chance of an explanation Mr Stier?

I would email the BHA myself but have emailed them 3 times in recent weeks about a different issue and despite 3 times having received an automated reply that I would receive a response within 7 days none has been forthcoming.

I have absolutely no confidence in BHA

[eddie case]

Incompetent BHA allow races to clash at Hamilton & Chepstow

Only 3 meetings to manage and they can’t do it. They couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery <!– s:roll: –><!– s:roll: –>

[betlarge]

There were three meetings at standard 10 minute gaps. What was the problem?

Mike

[tbracing]

There was a fall at Chepstow that caused a delay.

[betlarge]

There was a fall at Chepstow that caused a delay.

Thanks TB. Clearly the BHA’s fault then!!

Honestly.

Mike

[stevecaution]

It was highly disappointing that two group 1 races, The Tattersalls Gold Cup and The Prix D’Ispahan went off within five minutes of each other on Sunday. They were from different countries but surely an awareness that benefits punters on a worldwide scale could result in a gap bigger than 5 minutes in the schedule between two Group 1 races?

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

[eddie case]

There was a fall at Chepstow that caused a delay.

Thanks TB. Clearly the BHA’s fault then!!

Honestly.

Mike

Good to know you’ve got your finger on the pulse betlarge

[betlarge]

Good to know you’ve got your finger on the pulse betlarge

I have no idea what you mean??

Mike

[eddie case]

Are you really under the impression that the BHA do not have control of the off times of races, to avoid clashes in the event of delays?

[betlarge]

Are you really under the impression that the BHA do not have control of the off times of races to avoid clashes in the event of delays?

I am yes. I always presumed it was the Stipendiary Stewards job on the day.

Mike

[Bachelors Hall]

It was highly disappointing that two group 1 races, The Tattersalls Gold Cup and The Prix D’Ispahan went off within five minutes of each other on Sunday. They were from different countries but surely an awareness that benefits punters on a worldwide scale could result in a gap bigger than 5 minutes in the schedule between two Group 1 races?

Such awareness would benefit the purists but not necessarily the punters who, sadly, would sooner bet in a domestic contest at Wolverhampton, Ballinrobe, Strasbourg than in a foreign Group 1 at Ascot, Leopardstown, Longchamp. Which suits the bookies/pmu fine as they’re happier with the punters chucking their money at 15 runner low grade handicaps.

Sadly, punters, as with so many humans, are not a particularly internationalist species.

[Author]

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