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Cleeve Hurdle 2012

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  • #20861
    SirHarryLewis
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1217

    Big Bucks will look once again like the greatest stayer ever against this bunch of very average stayers. Mourad…Probably not in the top 5 Ireland could find for this distance. Dynaste….beaten in a grade 1 last time cause that’s what happens when a grade 3 winner steps up to grade 1

    SHL

    #388533
    Zarkava
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4691

    On the bridle.

    #388570
    shmeeko69
    Member
    • Total Posts 237

    Big Bucks will look once again like the greatest stayer ever against this bunch of very average stayers. Mourad…Probably not in the top 5 Ireland could find for this distance. Dynaste….beaten in a grade 1 last time cause that’s what happens when a grade 3 winner steps up to grade 1

    You would be a fool to bet against him even at 1/4 having won the last 14 races and likes cut on the ground, although he goes on any ground. This horse is a true phenomenon and one of the best racehorses I’ve had the privilege to see.

    #388572
    grey dolphin
    Participant
    • Total Posts 651

    It’s a poor division though isn’t it? Can’t the race programmers frame some of these races with a bit more imagination, so that something half decent might be getting 10lb from Big Buck’s?

    The Cleeve Hurdle used to be an extended two and a half, with penalties, and all the better for it….

    #388611
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 29897

    10/1 looks a good enough each way bet for Dynaste. Also 9/4 betting without Big Buck’s.

    Dynaste is far better than the Ascot race makes him look. Went for home far too soon. Obviously expect Big Buck’s to win, but that does not mean there isn’t any good bets against him.

    Value Is Everything
    #388614
    Zarkava
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4691

    It’s a poor division though isn’t it? Can’t the race programmers frame some of these races with a bit more imagination, so that something half decent might be getting 10lb from Big Buck’s?

    The Cleeve Hurdle used to be an extended two and a half, with penalties, and all the better for it….

    Unfortunately racecourses’ sole priority is attracting the best horses, hence why the Cleeve is now a Grade 2 and why the VC Chase is no longer a handicap.

    Pretty pathetic really and I certainly don’t agree with the decision to change the latter as we now get stupidly small fields, and usually a large winning distance, but we’ve had Big Buck’s, Tidal Bay, Grands Crus and Inglis Drever win the Cleeve recently and all were exciting races with impressive winners, so I don’t think it’s much of an issue in this case personally.

    Anyway, this Big Money thing taking on Mourad and Dynaste will be a decent race I think. Obviously Big Money will win but in a small field, it might just be a more exciting race than you think.

    #388702
    SirHarryLewis
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1217

    We never see Big Bucks try a shorter distance. My mind is dragged back to the number Hardy Eustace did on Mighty Man and lough Derg at the medium distance back in 2006. These stayers are vunerable to the speedsters stepping up a bit and Big Bucks will never be classed as great to me until I see him beat a few of them.

    SHL

    #388707
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 29897

    Is it Big Buck’s fault that all the best staying hurdlers chickened out rather than take him on? Because they know he’s the best we’ve seen. Punchestowns went chasing, so did Time For Rupert, Grands Crus, Bobs Worth etc etc.

    Of course we all know Istabraq was crap because he was kept to 2 miles. :roll: Sorry, ignore me. Just fed up with this type of comment. :wink: Why should the best stayer go back in distance? Just celebrate we are so lucky to live in the era of the best staying hurdler there’s ever been.

    Hardy Eustace was a genuine battler, but his form is nowhere near Big Buck’s.

    Value Is Everything
    #388721
    Zarkava
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4691

    Who won?

    #388727
    The Young Fella
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 2064

    Awesome!

    If Big Buck’s was going to get beaten this season, today was the day. After being eased off in training since the Long Walk with Paul Nicholls warning "he’ll run in the Cleeve Hurdle since he’s so hard to get fit nowadays" – we can only imagine how BB will dismantle them in March.

    If this was Big Buck’s at 75%…just wow.

    #388729
    Hurdygurdyman
    Member
    • Total Posts 1533

    He really does extract the urine at times I could have swore he was struggling at one stage.

    One more to = Sir Ken’s record and only bad luck can stop him.

    Would love to see him go back chasing after this year World Hurdle and win a couple of Gold Cups. He’d eat Long Run an co alive.

    #388743
    IronMike
    Member
    • Total Posts 18

    Big Bucks is top class and today he yet again powered home after looking in trouble for a bit. However, is it unfair to say his greatness is elevated by the fact that the 3m hurdle division is terribly weak? Don’t get me wrong his 15 wins in a row is very rare indeed and worthy of praise. I’d just love to see him over fences next season so he can be tested in higher company. As for the WH in March – they should just award him the win now. :mrgreen:

    #388750
    Zarkava
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4691

    I actually think Dynaste could easily win a World Hurdle if Biggy weren’t around. Looks a very high class horse to me.

    #388813
    Himself
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3777

    If only Big Bucks’ could jump a fence. :? Just to reiterate what I said a few months ago: Big Bucks’ is without question the most talented ( and best ) horse Paul Nicholls has ever trained – bar none.

    Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning

    #388855
    SirHarryLewis
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1217

    Is it Big Buck’s fault that all the best staying hurdlers chickened out rather than take him on? Because they know he’s the best we’ve seen. Punchestowns went chasing, so did Time For Rupert, Grands Crus, Bobs Worth etc etc.

    Of course we all know Istabraq was crap because he was kept to 2 miles. :roll: Sorry, ignore me. Just fed up with this type of comment. :wink: Why should the best stayer go back in distance? Just celebrate we are so lucky to live in the era of the best staying hurdler there’s ever been.

    Hardy Eustace was a genuine battler, but his form is nowhere near Big Buck’s.

    Well Istabraq wasnt kept to 2 miles was he??? I seem to remember him winning the longer novice hurdle race at cheltenham. A trick repeated by Hardy Eustace who also a champion hurdler which generally carries more prestige than a stayer. Dont get me wrong, BB is a great stayer but his best opponent was years ago in the form of Punchestown, he was a suspect chaser, he was readily beatable at shorter distances and yet people want to call him a legend.

    Am I asking too much to want the truly great horses to show some flexibility.

    SHL

    #388856
    hurricanefly
    Member
    • Total Posts 6

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion obviously, but if any horse wins a championship race 3 years running at the festival, not to mention go 15 races unbeaten, surely he must rank as one of the greatest? Why do people crave to see him at a different distance? It wouldn’t suit him. Usain Bolt won’t go and run over 800m does that mean he still isnt the best 100m runner around? Frankel isn’t going to run in an Arc but does that mean he isn’t one of the greatest horses around? I think not.

    Grands Crus is currently 3rd favourite for the Gold Cup, the most prestigious race in National Hunt racing. Big Bucks beat him on the bridle at Aintree and ran away from him at Cheltenham after Ruby had foolishly dropped his whip.

    As I said before everyone is entitled to their own opinion but for what its worth I beleive Big Bucks to be one of the best race horses in training over both codes, the gritty determination he shows, the consumate ease with which he wins his races, how he draws the crowd’s imagination, he can only be good for racing in general.

    #388867
    moehat
    Participant
    • Total Posts 8490

    I’d love to see him run on the flat. I’d make the journey to see him wherever he ran in whichever Gold Cup.

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