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Monksfield – i didn’t make any reference to next years race.
Mark – that can only be your interpretation surely? Or are you saying Denman ran to a similar mark as he did last year?
What is this similar mark rubbish mate. I don’t mean to harp on at you but this ratings crap is just a bunch of figures that rareley work inside a deperate judges head IMO.
Did you watch the two races. Last year it was as plain as the nose on your face that Kauto Star was not himself.
Whe myself and others said the form was wrong as NC had finished upside KS we got hi with NC was an improving horse.
This tear Kauto terned up at his very best was never out a common canter until Ruby said go and put so much air between himslf and the very much imroved (my ass) NC
Kauto Absolutely turned the form on it’s head. We all know the Denman story but he has run a blinder all the way to the liune and eat NC a similar distance to last year. So in reality of you want to throw figures about it must be said through that line Denman improved on last year.
Denman is one paced at the end of his races. Any time he and KS meet and both are in top form. Ruby will just take the piss and pass him at will IMO.
From attheraces.com…
"He could run in the next three Gold Cups if we keep him right and he stays injury free. He is nine now and could go on to 10, 11 or even 12."
"I think the way he is at the moment, he could win another Tingle Creek."
Paul Nicholls on Kauto Star
Never mind all the squabbling about whether certain horses truly ran to form/were suited by the going – some posts here remind me of rival sets of football fans hurling abuse at each other!
Have got to say that it was an absolute privilege to witness yesterday’s race, whether being there in person or on the telly. Kauto put in a flawless performance, Denman proved wrong all those doubters who’d written him off prematurely, most of the other principals ran close to their true form, and no horses/jocks were injured. An absolutely perfect outcome (apart from the fact I lost on Denman!).
Well done Kauto – if there was any doubt before, he now surely deserves to take his place alongside jump racing’s immortals. Yesterday’s race transcends any differences of opinion – it was one of those occasions which will stay in the memories of jump racing fans for the rest of their days.
What do people think will happen to Denman next season? Will he be allowed to take his chance in the National, or will he have another crack at Kauto? Guess it will all depend on the going at Cheltenham – if it’s good to soft or softer, guess Harry will fancy the Gold Cup again. Obviously there’s no way he’ll run in both.
Never mind all the squabbling about whether certain horses truly ran to form/were suited by the going – some posts here remind me of rival sets of football fans hurling abuse at each other!
Have got to say that it was an absolute privilege to witness yesterday’s race, whether being there in person or on the telly. Kauto put in a flawless performance, Denman proved wrong all those doubters who’d written him off prematurely, most of the other principals ran close to their true form, and no horses/jocks were injured. An absolutely perfect outcome (apart from the fact I lost on Denman!).
Well done Kauto – if there was any doubt before, he now surely deserves to take his place alongside jump racing’s immortals. Yesterday’s race transcends any differences of opinion – it was one of those occasions which will stay in the memories of jump racing fans for the rest of their days.
What do people think will happen to Denman next season? Will he be allowed to take his chance in the National, or will he have another crack at Kauto? Guess it will all depend on the going at Cheltenham – if it’s good to soft or softer, guess Harry will fancy the Gold Cup again. Obviously there’s no way he’ll run in both.
I think all being well he will go for the Gold Cup again. How will they be able to resist Kauto vs Denman mark 3?
Personally I’d love to see him go for the national I think he’d waltz home .
I remember seeing Clive Smith on TV a while back on Kauto’s future plans………"A couple of Gold Cups, then maybe the National".
Who’d like to see that ?
Me, for one.
Monksfield – i didn’t make any reference to next years race.
Mark – that can only be your interpretation surely? Or are you saying Denman ran to a similar mark as he did last year?
What is this similar mark rubbish mate. I don’t mean to harp on at you but this ratings crap is just a bunch of figures that rareley work inside a deperate judges head
IMO.
Did you watch the two races. Last year it was as plain as the nose on your face that Kauto Star was not himself.
Whe myself and others said the form was wrong as NC had finished upside KS we got hi with NC was an improving horse.
This tear Kauto terned up at his very best was never out a common canter until Ruby said go and put so much air between himslf and the very much imroved (my ass) NC
Kauto Absolutely turned the form on it’s head. We all know the Denman story but he has run a blinder all the way to the liune
and eat NC a similar distance to last year. So in reality of you want to throw figures about it must be said through that line Denman improved on last year.
Denman is one paced at the end of his races. Any time he and KS meet and both are in top form. Ruby will just take the piss and pass him at will IMO.
Fist,
If PC thinks Denman’s form last year is better than Kauto Star’s this year (as I believe the Racing Post ratings do) then he is talking of "marks".You and I may disagree with him (and the RP) but his opinion is hardly rubbish, just his opinion. If you say Kauto Star is better than Denman then you yourself work to "marks". Are you a "desperate judge".
Nicholls has said since the race. NC was unsuited by the conditions, so he must have run below form; therefore Denman must have run below form.
If you believe Denman and Neptunes ran to form then do you believe Exotic Dancer, My Will and Roll Along improved? I think it is best judging the race by Exotic Dancer and how much further Kauto Star beat him.
Mark
Value Is EverythingGinger RPR have Kauto’s form this year better than Denman’s last year by two punds 185 – 183.
Personally I think they’ve over-rated last years race a bit, superb as it was, but thats just my own personal opinion.
Ginger RPR have Kauto’s form this year better than Denman’s last year by two punds 185 – 183.
Personally I think they’ve over-rated last years race a bit, superb as it was, but thats just my own personal opinion.
Must be another rating Harry Findlay was talking about on TV today then Ian.
Mark
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
Just my opinion, but I think it would be wrong to judge today’s form on My Will.
The horse was effectively ridden for a place, never had to compete with the principals at any stage of the race, and had a totally easy time of doing what he did.
Consequently, having effectively run in his own race, I believe he is flattered by his proximity to some much better horses. Whatever one’s views, form just isn’t that linear.My Will was in front of Exotic Dancer for two thirds of the race
. Did not have the speed to go with the "principles". Under pressure before Roll Along, Alberta’s Run and Barber Shop. A few lengths behind them coming down the hill, before staying on past them in the final quarter mile. Don’t think it was due to being "ridden for a place".
Ideal National trial.
Good point Ginger; the only thing behind Exotic Dancer for much of the race was the ambulance.
Ginger RPR have Kauto’s form this year better than Denman’s last year by two punds 185 – 183.
Personally I think they’ve over-rated last years race a bit, superb as it was, but thats just my own personal opinion.
Must be another rating Harry Findlay was talking about on TV today then Ian.
Mark
Dunno mate I didn’t see the interview. Timeform? Though they won’t have rated the race yet will they?
1. Would a fully-fit Denman beat KS? (I think he would, he’s done it before)
Surely the question should be "Would a fully-fit Denman beat
a fully fit KS?
"
To which the answer is, "No, of course not".
I really don’t agree. I think Kauto was very near his best when he ran against Denman last year.
Why did he not jump or travel well? Because Denman did not allow him to. I think there is great validity in believing Denman took Kauto out of his "comfort zone" in 2008.
Ok, they both would prefer "their ground" in the race. However, they have to cope with the reality of the ground on the day. Surely good ground is the most level playing field?
If both horses turn up fit and well next year on good ground – I could see Denman getting Kauto off the bridle and having a decent lead coming to the last – now how is Kauto going to deal with that? Differently from 2008?
Zip
The way i see it, but then i am a very uneducated punter
2008 Denman beat a below its best Kauto Star
2009 Kauto Star beat a below its best Denman
2010 Be nice to see them both at their best.Well said, Sir!
Zip
I really don’t agree. I think Kauto was very near his best when he ran against Denman last year.
You are surely in the minority there.
Why did he not jump or travel well? Because Denman did not allow him too. I think there is great validity in believing Denman took Kauto out of his "comfort zone" in 2008.
See, I take the view that Kauto definitely wasn’t right in ’08, and that inferior animals (Neptune Collonges , fer chrissake !) finished much closer to KS than connections even dreamed of.
Ok, they both would prefer "their ground" in the race. However, they have to cope with the reality of the ground on the day. Surely good ground is the most level playing field?
On good, Denman wouldn’t see which way Kauto went.
If both horses turn up fit and well next year on good ground – I could see Denman getting Kauto off the bridle and having a decent lead coming to the last – now how is Kauto going to deal with that? Differently from 2008?
They’re both fit and well, right ? Good ground ? You think Denman could get himself into that position ? See previous comment.
Zip
Maybe Kauto Star has never had to run in a Gold Cup where he has to fight his way through other horses; cope with horses falling in front of him etc..2 years ago Neptune Collonges seemed to be used to nurse Kauto round; last year when the grey ran to win Kauto had to a battle which he lost….I’d like to see him in a race like Dessie v Panto Prince where sheer guts and determination gets him home. He’s a brilliant horse who wins brilliantly because of his superiority, but I’d like him to see the whites of another horses eyes and win because he wants that win.
Interesting opinions as usual, here"s mine! That was visually the most impressive performance i have ever seen from Kauto Star, his jumping was
clinical, he travelled like a dream and he quickened up like only a true champ can at the end of a race, Neptune ran a gallant race right up to his mark on ground that was not ideal, Exotic could only have got closer on softer ground that would have blunted Kauto"s speed, Albertas run could/should have ran better than his finishing position. Denman will never beat the Kauto we witnessed on friday on that ground! On softer ground
the real Denman would beat Kauto every time no question! The pair of them are so reliable on the state of the ground that we will never know who
really is the best! IMO!Interesting opinions as usual, here"s mine! That was visually the most impressive performance i have ever seen from Kauto Star, his jumping was
clinical, he travelled like a dream and he quickened up like only a true champ can at the end of a race, Neptune ran a gallant race right up to his mark on ground that was not ideal, Exotic could only have got closer on softer ground that would have blunted Kauto"s speed, Albertas run could/should have ran better than his finishing position. Denman will never beat the Kauto we witnessed on friday on that ground! On softer ground
the real Denman would beat Kauto every time no question! The pair of them are so reliable on the state of the ground that we will never know who
really is the best! IMO!ya know what gwilson for once i agree with you..
xI’ve not read all the posts, but I suppose it’s similar to last year when Denman had the upper hand and the Kauto Star supporters, which I was one of was trying to defend his performance. Fact is KS was not right last season in the GC. Watch the replay of that race and he made at least 10 mistakes and it had nothing to do with the pace Denman was going at, as he made a lot of them before Denman pushed the thrust button. Denman certainly had excuses this year no doubt, but ponud for pound Kauto Star in my book is the better horse. Denman has the chance to do what KS did this year and regain the crown next year, but I don’t think his record will come close to that of KS, as he’s one dimensional. We’re lucky to have seen a horse like KS who has the versatility to have won at the Tingle Creek and Gold Cup distances. An absolutely wonderful horse that’s once in a lifetime, so enjoy
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